I've a conundrum

Part of me agrees part of me is "are you people for real?"

People do cyber/phone sex/look at porn who are married usually in order to keep FROM doing more outside the marriage.

This "you might as well be fucking him if you're talking about it" is so Christian and weird a morality to me. On my personal planet, talking and thinking do not equal doinking. It's all very "I have lusted in my heart."

Yeah, don't let your spouse feel neglected, talk to them, fix the marital problems etc. AND in the real world we live in, maybe dare to address some of your needs on your time. Whatever.

Women are more inclined (not always but often) to get emotionally involved with everyone who gives them an orgasm, but in truth I don't see anything here that isn't equivalent to guys who jack off to am pics and leave complimentary messages.

As I see it this person is NOT responsible for the hurt feeewings of his wife - he is and she is. Completely sexist whore-shaming bullshit that she should "think of his wife." Let him do it.

This person is responsible for her marriage, in which the message is pretty clear that her sexuality is of little importance. If everything-but-the-sex is hunky dory, then that's a quandary, if not, I can't imagine why anyone would hesitate to look elsewhere and/or move on - BUT it's not ME, guess what!

Everyone here seems to think that gross sexual incompatibility can be "worked through" - that's downright delusional.

I know one thing. If this person didn't have a female av, these responses would be SO much less "let's gleefully call out the slut".


I've not brought gender into this, in fact hardly anyone has apart from your good self. As far as I'm concerned this person could be male or female. Also you have to take this thread in conjunction with the previous, very similar thread, that did not shed the OP, as sharing of their experiences.

If they are just using the net as wank material then fair enough, but the OP, to me indicates wanting more than just a bit of online fun. In an ideal world everyone would share their fantasies with their partner/partners, but I accept that most people struggle to be honest with themselves never mind other people, who they may fear getting a negative reaction from.

I also accept that not all relationships work out, but I still don't see anything wrong with being honest and telling your partner that. Rather than being dishonest. I'm maybe miss reading between the lines, but to me this is not about something as small as having fantasies or masterbation thoughts, but over having a relationship that the OP suggests did they live closer would be more than simply sharing thoughts and ideas.

If a woman wants to masterbate, fuck as many men/women, or as few men/women as she feels like then that is her choice, same as it is for a man. But whether a man or a woman, if you have commited to someone to be commited soley to them, then in my opinion they should try to live up to that commitment and if not let go, regardless of whether we believe marrage is a valid lifestyle choice or not.

I'm sure if I sold you something, but did not deliver on my side of the deal, you would not say that it's fine for me to cheat you, as not cheating is a soley Christian ideal and not something that is a realistic lifestyle choice.
 
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I'm sure if I sold you something, but did not deliver on my side of the deal, you would not say that it's fine for me to cheat you, as not cheating is a soley Christian ideal and not something that is a realistic lifestyle choice.

You are still comparing not delivering the goods to going out and window shopping at other stores and coming back home. It's the same problem as being married to a gamer who's being compulsive about it - AT THIS TIME.

Until the deed is fait accompli I don't see as much "there" there as everyone else. Even then, as shitty things that people do go, infidelity is a little less outrageous to me than a lot of other things, and draws far more energy than it deserves in a world of genocide and poverty and whatever. Before everyone invented the rules of ethical slutness, a lot of good people have had "it's complicated" as their status, and their foibles don't negate everything else about them.

If the spouses are pissed, let them put up the ultimatums. We all know how well those work.

Like someone has to say "by the way, I'm going to say this because I'm dealing with a woman expressing interests outside her marriage commitment" every time they're about to say something amazingly sexist in context? It's not like this conversation doesn't come up regularly. Guys don't get a pass, but they don't get the same flavor of being raked over the coals. It's much more "do the honorable thing" not "think of the hearth and home where you BELONG." I have NEVER in my legnthening life seen a guy told to "think about HER husband!"
 
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You are still comparing not delivering the goods to going out and window shopping at other stores and coming back home. It's the same problem as being married to a gamer who's being compulsive about it - AT THIS TIME.

Until the deed is fait accompli I don't see as much "there" there as everyone else. Even then, as shitty things that people do go, infidelity is a little less outrageous to me than a lot of other things, and draws far more energy than it deserves in a world of genocide and poverty and whatever. Before everyone invented the rules of ethical slutness, a lot of good people have had "it's complicated" as their status, and their foibles don't negate everything else about them.

If the spouses are pissed, let them put up the ultimatums. We all know how well those work.

Like someone has to say "by the way, I'm going to say this because I'm dealing with a woman expressing interests outside her marriage commitment" every time they're about to say something amazingly sexist in context? It's not like this conversation doesn't come up regularly. Guys don't get a pass, but they don't get the same flavor of being raked over the coals. It's much more "do the honorable thing" not "think of the hearth and home where you BELONG." I have NEVER in my legnthening life seen a guy told to "think about HER husband!"


Fair point, but they just don't get raked across the coals as much as they have not met me. I rake em both across the coals (unless they are into that kinda thing).

To be honest if the conversation comes up regularly then I plead a little ignorance as I tend to float in and out of the forums.

In the en though, if people are going to ask for peoples opinions then they are going to get them, welcome or unwelcome.

True infidelity is low on the scale of crapness in life, but you can put alot of things low on importance in life, if we start making a scale I'm sure we could find a few things worse than murder, but it does not mean murder is not terrible in itself.

ps are there really rules about ethical slutness????
 
Double standards

I'll tell you what does annoy me in terms of double standards. It's picture posting. Specifically posting pictures of women with men in the shot, the picture of the woman is there for all to see the man is blanked out.

Firstly it makes no sense as if anyone recognises the woman, then the man is going to be obvious, but if you are going to expose your other half to the world of eternal online porn, be at least willing to do the same to yourself.

We have always gone for a no face pics rule, but I have no qualms about people seeing as much of me as they do of my wife.
 
There are rules to ethical sluthood! I first heard of The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy on this forum, can't remember whose tip it was, but I wish I could find them again and thank them. One of the authors' main precepts is that relationships should be consensual. (And 'cheating' is essentially nonconsenual nonmonogamy.)

I think emotional affairs are a grey area that need to be worked out by the individuals in a relationship. When you commit to one person through marriage, we like to think that we are promising to love them exclusively forever. I think this is a beautiful ideal. But how realistic is it? No-one screams emotional affair when a husband spends more quality time with his buddies than with his spouse, or when a wife shares secrets with her girlfriends that she wouldn't consider telling her husband. Can very close relationships with a parent or with a child create emotional distance in a marriage? Of course they can.

You could say that only ROMANTIC bonds are at issue. By most accounts, though, maintaining romantic love over a long period of time is not impossible but not easy. And I just don't see how you can STOP yourself from being attracted to new people. Yes, you can recognize those feelings and cut yourself off from all contact immediately, but you can't prevent them from forming.

The "think of the other husband/wife" thing gets to me, because I'm just not convinced that the needs of someone's married partner are greater/more important/more legitimate than the needs of the outside person. Infidelity can certainly cause overwhelming pain - greater even than the stresses of poverty or physical attack (I'll give Netzach genocide, lol) - but so can breaking it off with the 3rd party.

I agree with Azalea that sometimes the choice is between "sexual titillation or a longterm covenant" ... but it could also be between 'twu wuv or a longterm covenant'. What then? I quote Wanda von Dunajew:

"Shall I belong to one man whom I don’t love, merely because I have once loved him? No, I do not renounce; I love everyone who pleases me, and give happiness to everyone who loves me. Is that ugly? No, it is more beautiful by far, than if cruelly I enjoy the tortures, which my beauty excites, and virtuously reject the poor fellow who is pining away for me."

Safest, maybe, not to enter into permanent covenants. But that's sad, too.
 
Being cheated on is worse than being poor? Really? In what fucking universe? Because I'd sure love to live there.
 
Depends on the situation. Not 100% of the time. Some people are cheated on, dump their partner, and move on. Some people deal with years of emotional trauma and never enjoy another healthy relationship. Some people kill themselves.

Do YOU think that all poor people would choose money over their loved one's faithfulness?
 
Depends on the situation. Not 100% of the time. Some people are cheated on, dump their partner, and move on. Some people deal with years of emotional trauma and never enjoy another healthy relationship. Some people kill themselves.

Do YOU think that all poor people would choose money over their loved one's faithfulness?

If we are talking poor like about too loose the roof over your head and not being able to feed the kids, then yes.

People doing things behind your back that you both agree they shouldn't is something that hurts but it comes with human interaction. Nobodys perfect an we all fuck up sometimes in some way and there are worse things in life, really.

Some people do kill themselves and most do for reasons that wouldn't be nearly enough to make them do something like that if all else in life was fine and dandy.
 
Honesty is key...

Honesty with all of your partners AND yourself.

I have been there - and it's so supremely painful, heartbreaking and destructive. Not only to your marriage and bit on the side, but to YOUR whole being.

A couple things you should ask yourself:

Do you still love your husband?

Do you feel the pit of your stomach flip and feel nauseous when you think of your future without him?

Your answers to these questions will show you which path is yours (stay or go). It's difficult to do and probably one of the most emotionally painful things you will do in your life - BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

If you prolong it, you will not only do damage both relationships but YOUR emotional well being.

My story is similar, but different in the respect that once my Husband and i talked about kink He was receptive. But stepping out, for us, caused copious amounts of damage. So much so, i'm now seeing a therapist to sort through my self-esteem and self-worth issues.

Sweetie, have courage and do what you feel in your heart - not your panties. It's hard, but you can make a decision and take control of your life back. Being submissive DOES NOT mean being diminished.
 
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She has apparently left the proverbial building ... which makes me quite sad.

If she cams with her 'other guy' or her hubby like she did with me, they are lucky guys! She could be naughty!
She wants to blame the site for her shit.

AH, well.
 
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