incest, quantified

Hypoxia

doesn't watch television
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Posts
28,080
I've expanded this little number that shows degrees of separation and a totally arbitrary coding scheme. Maybe you'll find it useful. Or confusing. Whatever.

Code:
[center]Incest / Relationship / Consanguinity Table[/center]
YOU 0 self
YCL 0 clone         
YIT 0 identical twin        MAR - marriage          GEN - generic
=========================== ----------------------- =================
FAT 1 father                SFA - stepfather        PAR 1 any parent
MOT 1 mother                SMO - stepmother        SPA - stepparent
SON 1 son                   SSO - stepson           CHI 1 any child
DAU 1 daughter              SDO - stepdaughter      SCH - stepchild
BRO 1 brother               SBR - stepbrother       SIB 1 any sibling
SIS 1 sister                SSI - stepsister        SSB - stepsibling
SOD 1 double son                                    =================
DUD 1 double daughter       FIL - father-in-law     PIL - parent-IL
GSD 1 double grandson       MIL - mother-in-law     CIL - child-in-law
GDD 1 double granddaughter  DIL - daughter-in-law   SLL - sibling-IL
=========================== SSL - son-in-law        AIL - any in-law
HBR 2 half-brother          BIL - brother-in-law    =================
HSI 2 half-sister           SIL - sister-in-law     HSB 2 half-sibling
CDM 2 double 1st cousin (M)                         =================
CDF 2 double 1st cousin (F)                         AVU = uncle|aunt
UNB 2 uncle (blood)         UNM - uncle (marriage)  UNC = any uncle
AUB 2 aunt (blood)          AUM - aunt (marriage)   AUN = any aunt
NEB 2 nephew (blood)        NEM - nephew (marriage) NNN = niece|nephew
NIB 2 niece (blood)         NIM - niece (marriage)  NEP = any nephew
GFA 2 grandfather           SGF - stepgrandfather   NIE = any niece
GMO 2 grandmother           SGM - stepgrandmother   =================
GSO 2 grandson              SGS - stepgrandson      GPA 2 grandparent
GDA 2 granddaughter         SGD - stepgranddaughter GCH 2 grandchild
=========================== COM - cousin (marriage) =================
CMB 3 1st cousin (blood, M) CMM - 1st cou (marr, M) FCO 3 first cousin
CFB 3 1st cousin (blood, F) CFM - 1st cou (marr, F) COU = any cousin
UNH 3 half-uncle
AUH 3 half-aunt    [b]genetic relation coding key          [/b]
NEH 3 half-nephew  [b]-------------------------------------[/b]
NIH 3 half-niece   [b]0-3: blood kin; degrees of separation[/b]
GNE 3 grandnephew  [b]'-': non-blood relation (by marriage)[/b]
GNI 3 grandniece   [b]'=': blood or non-blood kin (either) [/b]

Anglish is weak with relationship descriptors. I've read that some languages (probably the polysynthetic sort) have specific words designating precise relationships to several degrees of separation, which is what I'm trying for with those codenames. Aunts/uncles/cousins by marriage can be tricky and would likely require a whole separate coding scheme. Yow. Fuck'em.
 
I'm not a member of the Incestienti, so not completely familiar with everything here.

Double Son? Is that Son gets Mom pregnant, baby grows up to fuck Mom?
Double Grandson? Nope, my brain hurts. Can't work this one out.

The Clones and Twins interest me (not in that way). If you fucked your clone-niece (ie. your clone's daughter) is that 1st degree or 2nd-degree?

And since this is Lit, I presume clones and identical twins can be trans-gender fertile, so what is it called when you get your trans-gender clone pregnant and then fuck the 18yo offspring when he/she/it grows up? Other than "totally fucked up" of course.
 
I'm not a member of the Incestienti, so not completely familiar with everything here.

Double Son? Is that Son gets Mom pregnant, baby grows up to fuck Mom?
Double Grandson? Nope, my brain hurts. Can't work this one out.
I'd have to re-dig-up the reference, but IIRC a double-child is the child of brother-sister incest, and a double-grandchild is the child of a double-son and double-daughter.

The Clones and Twins interest me (not in that way). If you fucked your clone-niece (ie. your clone's daughter) is that 1st degree or 2nd-degree?
Probably 1st degree. My head hurts too.

And since this is Lit, I presume clones and identical twins can be trans-gender fertile, so what is it called when you get your trans-gender clone pregnant and then fuck the 18yo offspring when he/she/it grows up? Other than "totally fucked up" of course.
That one had me stumped too. I only fitted in as many codes/relationships as I had room for on only one page on my screen. Also, I didn't account for medical advances allowing transformations of genders, ethnicities, and even species. If you're transformed into a male tiger and your hot identical twin becomes a female lion, what kind of pussy results? Ay yi yi.
 
a double-grandchild is the child of a double-son and double-daughter.

I thought I was beginning to understand, but after thinking on it longer, I'm pleased to say I'm not.
Your double-son doing it with your double-daughter: I get that. I get that the offspring is your double-grandchild, and my brother and I would love them like my own double-son. Quite literally, as it turns out...

So if a story bears the SOD tag, it means the sister is doing it with the double-son. Easy.
And if a story bears the GSD tag, then the sister (grandmother) is doing it with the double-grandson?

And this still earns a 1st degree? I suppose this is a measure of the cosanguinity, because there is no new blood introduced into the relationship. But the taboo relationship goes right down. I mean, the "normal" grandmother/grandson incestuous relationship is really only a little bit taboo anyway, but in a double-double family, it would almost be an expected right of passage to fuck Nan.

Also, I didn't account for medical advances allowing transformations of genders, ethnicities, and even species. If you're transformed into a male tiger and your hot identical twin becomes a female lion, what kind of pussy results? Ay yi yi.
If I was transformed into a dude AND a tiger, I'd be getting all the pussy I could before some hokey traditional-medicine murderer came and chopped my cock off. And I wouldn't be wasting my time on some big-flappy loosey-goosey lioness; I'd find a nice little servile serval.
 
So...anything beyond a 3rd cousin doesn't count as incest? Am I reading that right?
Last code, lower right, is COU - any cousin. That could be extended to CO1 (1st cousin), CO2 (2nd, or 1st once removed), and so on: CO3 to infinity. Genetically, anyone past 1st cousin is too distant to worry about. Socially, the limit runs from none -- yes, there are places with sibling marriage -- to almost infinity in societies with moiety rules. As it happens, Jesse James was a sixth cousin once removed, but I don't let that bother me. :D

And what counts as incest varies tremendously by society and context. I plan to write an essay one of these days. Right. ;) Now, I'll just say that 1st cousin marriage was and is common in some places, including 19th-century UK, and is almost mandatory in others -- parts of the Muslim world, so I have read. Here, bonking a step-sibling you grew up with is usually considered more incestuous than if you'd only met last year when your folks hooked up. Bonking any non-blood relatives may or may not be thought incestuous. It all depends, don't it?
 
I have to have a double granddaughter in a story a some point... :D
I have a Sawney Bean-type family storyline in my to-do pile. Expect various double-kids and double-grandkids. Yow.

Should I explain? Alexander 'Sawney' bean was a hopefully-mythical Scottish figure from somewhere in the 14th-16th centuries. He and his family holed up in a remote cave, fucked each other senseless, produced multiple multi-incestuous generations, and preyed upon passersby. I'll leave out the cannibalism etc for my story and focus on all the screwing of mum, grandmum, great-grandmum, and all the wee babes -- after they're 18, of course. Gotta maintain propriety.
 
Shouldn't double-son/double-daughter be closer than simple son/daughter? And likewise for double-grandkids.
 
Shouldn't double-son/double-daughter be closer than simple son/daughter? And likewise for double-grandkids.
It's all in the DNA, folks. Count them helices. Tote them genes. They only gots just so much DNA to work with. No extra injections, no sneaky penis-loads, just the same old juice.

It works the other way too, of course. If your parents never had kids, then you probably won't, either. :D

Hey, who knew that it was so complicated? :)
Like all human endeavors, complexity arises from boredom. If you're too bored to find and fuck someone new, then just wait for the next family reunion. It's a great place for pickups.

Yeah, incest is no amateur sport for sure. Only trained professionals should attempt it...
See, I told my sister she should charge more.
 
It's all in the DNA, folks. Count them helices. Tote them genes. They only gots just so much DNA to work with. No extra injections, no sneaky penis-loads, just the same old juice.

You'll have 50% common DNA with a parent, child, or sibling, without inbreeding. But if you have kids with a sibling, you'll share 75% of your DNA with those kids, so it should be something like 0.5 degrees.
 
Incest is sex with a relative your society says you shouldn't have sex with. But relatives are defined socially, not biologically. In Quebec (and most of the Western World), sex with a relative by marriage is not incest. Sex with second-degree relatives is also not considered incest, and, with approval, first cousins can marry (and, of course, have sex) without it being incest here in Quebec.

Among extremely patrilineal peoples, "mothers" may not be considered relatives of their children, and a first-born son inherits his father's wives, including the woman who bore him. It is customary to give her away to an "uncle," but keeping her as a wife would not be considered incest. Similarly, extremely matrilineal societies may not count a man as related to his wife's children, and sex with his daughter would be thought "greedy" rather than incestuous. As the most extreme case, among the Inca and the nobility in Polynesia and in Ancient Egypt, the first born child inherited the father's wealth and status, but males owned wealth and social rank. If the first born were a female, she would marry, and reproduce with, her younger brother so as to keep the wealth and status within the family. That wouldn't be incest. If she had sex with an older brother, or she wasn't the first-born, it would be incest.

In short, we tend to confuse incest (social proscription) and inbreeding (genetic closeness) and confound them entirely, even treating sex with relatives by marriage as if it were inbreeding, though there's no genetic relationship at all.
 
Incest is sex with a relative your society says you shouldn't have sex with. But relatives are defined socially, not biologically. In Quebec (and most of the Western World), sex with a relative by marriage is not incest. Sex with second-degree relatives is also not considered incest, and, with approval, first cousins can marry (and, of course, have sex) without it being incest here in Quebec.

Among extremely patrilineal peoples, "mothers" may not be considered relatives of their children, and a first-born son inherits his father's wives, including the woman who bore him. It is customary to give her away to an "uncle," but keeping her as a wife would not be considered incest. Similarly, extremely matrilineal societies may not count a man as related to his wife's children, and sex with his daughter would be thought "greedy" rather than incestuous. As the most extreme case, among the Inca and the nobility in Polynesia and in Ancient Egypt, the first born child inherited the father's wealth and status, but males owned wealth and social rank. If the first born were a female, she would marry, and reproduce with, her younger brother so as to keep the wealth and status within the family. That wouldn't be incest. If she had sex with an older brother, or she wasn't the first-born, it would be incest.

This came up last year when I was editing another author's Halloween story. It involved an Australian Aboriginal people (I think Yolngu) and step-siblings who've only met as adults getting it on. In Western culture that probably wouldn't be a big deal these days, but under Yolngu rules that would be viewed much the same as brother-sister incest, because there are very specific rules about who you're allowed to sleep with or even look at.
 
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