Enema used as a tool.

I've used punishment enemas as a means to bring about submission. I've found when you control the bowels it breaks down a lot of hesitancy. Anyone else had any experience with this?

You say punishment, what transgression would be suitably heinous for you to wish to make a person shed all their natural gut bacteria and shit themselves?
Sigh

EroticMasseur said:

I've used punishment enemas as a means to bring about submission. I've found when you control the bowels it breaks down a lot of hesitancy. Anyone else had any experience with this?

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I do use enemas quite often in scenes actually, although not necessarily for a punishment effect. I think I have maybe done a punishment enema maybe a handful of times in the past decade or so. If done right you can get a variety of effects depending on the situation.

I do agree though, there is a certain amount of hesitancy that does get "broken". I think a lot of it has to do with the assumptions made by society when it comes to the anal area in general. In a lot of ways I guess it can be used as a trust tool in the right situations, assuming of course that this is something that is being given willingly and not demanded as a price.

An enema is not about shitting one's self - unless that is the only perception. However it can have sexual, erotic, control orientated and penetrative qualities if done well and with someone in the right head space.

Unfortunately I doubt lit is going to be place for an actual discussion on something like this.

Sweetdaisymae said:

You say punishment, what transgression would be suitably heinous for you to wish to make a person shed all their natural gut bacteria and shit themselves?
Sigh

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Yes, the above is what concerns me about enemas--I have yet to find a reliable source that denies this is a problem.

Tomahawk26 said:

Yes, the above is what concerns me about enemas--I have yet to find a reliable source that denies this is a problem.

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There has also never been a reliable source to prove there is a problem either. This is likely why you cannot find anything. Hard to prove that something doesn't exist if it is not a legit problem.

There have been studies that show daily laxative use hinders intestinal flora. Also studies that show colonoscopy prep has limited and short lived effects on intestinal flora,. Some other studies also show the same limited and short lived problem with colonics (which go far far far above what your normal 1-2 qt enema will ever do.)

Possible enema dependency? Possibly yes, if used daily. Harm intestinal flora? That is like saying that getting cold in the winter will give you a cold. Honestly, to even get to the possibility where you could even have a intestinal flora problem you would have to be a major enema fetishist. Even then, I doubt most of them would do it at the frequency to possibly cause this. The body is amazing with what it recreates including the bacteria and cells that run out whole world.

I have doubts that a simple enema will remove all of the bacteria from the gut. Compare that to handwashing protocols, which attempt to do the same thing.

twister947 said:

I have doubts that a simple enema will remove all of the bacteria from the gut. Compare that to handwashing protocols, which attempt to do the same thing.

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Comparing the gut to your hands is pretty crazy. Your hands our designed to be washed--your gut isn't. While I didn't say that one enema will totally fuck your flora forever, there are documented studies of colonoscopy prep that show that the bacterial environment is significantly changed by the prep and it doesn't immediately recover. Even a monthly enema probably isn't cause for concern (though I would hope people know their bodies well enough to know what's actually right for them), but there are studies showing that as soon as you go toward weekly or more frequent use, you really start altering things for the worse. I just care more about my intestinal health than I care about pleasing anyone, and I really think everyone should take the risks seriously.

Tomahawk26 said:

Comparing the gut to your hands is pretty crazy. Your hands our designed to be washed--your gut isn't. While I didn't say that one enema will totally fuck your flora forever, there are documented studies of colonoscopy prep that show that the bacterial environment is significantly changed by the prep and it doesn't immediately recover. Even a monthly enema probably isn't cause for concern (though I would hope people know their bodies well enough to know what's actually right for them), but there are studies showing that as soon as you go toward weekly or more frequent use, you really start altering things for the worse. I just care more about my intestinal health than I care about pleasing anyone, and I really think everyone should take the risks seriously.

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I don't disagree with you...there's barely any daylight between us. My point was, and is, the notion that an enema will remove all bacteria, as another poster claimed, is suspect. It ain't that easy to get rid of bacteria.

Claiming that studies show whatever, without references, is anecdotal, at best. I'd like to read the abstracts, at least.

I'm not crazy.

Tomahawk26 said:

Even a monthly enema probably isn't cause for concern (though I would hope people know their bodies well enough to know what's actually right for them), but there are studies showing that as soon as you go toward weekly or more frequent use, you really start altering things for the worse. I just care more about my intestinal health than I care about pleasing anyone, and I really think everyone should take the risks seriously.

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Would really love to see this study you mention.

Either way, you cannot compare colonoscopy prep to an emema, even on a weekly basis. Have you ever know someone who has gone through it? Not at all the same.

Colonoscopy prep involves massive amount of laxatives which cause the body to . Poor out so much of the internal hydration it has through the colon walls causing the body to purge itself over and over and over and over. Prep is the worst part of the procedure. Pretty much hell actually. Rarely is any enema involved, althoughsome old style ones do recommend a fleet enema which is different than what we are discussing here.

A colonoscopyis a massive cleaning of almost the entire digestive tract. Most enemas touch maybe the last few feet of your intestines. Comparing the two is like comparng a campfire to a forest fire.

You have every right to make your own choice based on your own opinions, and I am not replying to challenge that. You are welcome to draw your conclusions how you may... but i have never run into any of the things you bring up and I had to reach hard to find anything associated with enemas and bacterial imbalance. What I could find was not good sources and hardly even conjecture much less proven. So really, if you have a legit source I would love to hear it.


Pardon the typos, lit and my phone are not a good mix.

I would say I'm probably coming at this from a different angle than most people would, as a mother of a child born with serious intestinal issues, so I'm probably more cautious about such things than most. My 4 year old son has had a colonoscopy, so yes, I'm aware of what the prep entails. Like I said in my second comment, I'm sure that varying levels of this kind of activity will or won't affect people--I think it's just important to be aware of your body (not you, specifically, of course--anyone) and what you should or shouldn't do to it, based on your particular situation.

Not trying to... poop on anyone's party, as it were.

I'm wondering if a round of antibiotics isn't at least as devastating to intestinal flora as an enema. Nothing to base this on...just pulling it out of my ass (note: I did not start the bad puns!).

Tomahawk26 said:

I would say I'm probably coming at this from a different angle than most people would, as a mother of a child born with serious intestinal issues, so I'm probably more cautious about such things than most. My 4 year old son has had a colonoscopy, so yes, I'm aware of what the prep entails. Like I said in my second comment, I'm sure that varying levels of this kind of activity will or won't affect people--I think it's just important to be aware of your body (not you, specifically, of course--anyone) and what you should or shouldn't do to it, based on your particular situation.

Not trying to... poop on anyone's party, as it were.

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i am not truing to poop on anyone's parties or opinions either. Sorry if i insulted youn not knowing you have a child with digestive problems.. but as someone has had had 2 colonoscopies done and lives with digestive issues as well - enemas and a colonoscopy are two complete ball games so to speak. It is not a fair association. Colonic, maybe. Even a colonic does not involve such a drastic effect as colonoscopy prep does.

At the same time if you are going to go on about something in a negative way and claim there is proof about it - you should be able to show said proof. Otherwise you are just doing someone else a disservice who comes on this thread looking for legitamate information.

twister947 said:

I'm wondering if a round of antibiotics isn't at least as devastating to intestinal flora as an enema. Nothing to base this on...just pulling it out of my ass (note: I did not start the bad puns!).

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O would say antibiotics do much more damage. Antibiotics kill all bacteria, good and bad. This is why you can get heast infections and issues with c-diff eventually. Antibiotics will touch everything. An enema is only a small splash at the miles of intestines.

MsAmative said:

i am not truing to poop on anyone's parties or opinions either. Sorry if i insulted youn not knowing you have a child with digestive problems.. but as someone has had had 2 colonoscopies done and lives with digestive issues as well - enemas and a colonoscopy are two complete ball games so to speak. It is not a fair association. Colonic, maybe. Even a colonic does not involve such a drastic effect as colonoscopy prep does.

At the same time if you are going to go on about something in a negative way and claim there is proof about it - you should be able to show said proof. Otherwise you are just doing someone else a disservice who comes on this thread looking for legitamate information.

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Oh, I wasn't insulted! Just trying to explain that my perspective might be unduly affected by my experiences with my son's health issues. While it's true I can definitely find a lot of studies and information about the negative effects of colonics and the like than I can about enemas, I'm still not sure I would be comfortable having one administered by a non-medical professional.

You do you, though, of course!

Tomahawk26 said:

Oh, I wasn't insulted! Just trying to explain that my perspective might be unduly affected by my experiences with my son's health issues. While it's true I can definitely find a lot of studies and information about the negative effects of colonics and the like than I can about enemas, I'm still not sure I would be comfortable having one administered by a non-medical professional.

You do you, though, of course!

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Well you shouldn't take studies about one thing and phrase it as if they about something else.. because that is misinformation. You cannot take something about colonic and apply it to enemas because they are similar and fit an MO, just like I can't say that all those million enema fetishist out there who have no health problems means it has no risks.

Things have to be based on proven theories, not just correlations or assumptions. Much of what you'very posted was not stated as opinion until now, but as facts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2910665

My pleasure.

Gianbattista said:

Edit: I do wish someone would tell me what these enemas are as a tool. I have images of the dirty out water in water guns,

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One way is to administer the enema and then tell them they have to hold it for x amount of time. It'll be uncomfortable to painful depending on time and "recipe." Added humiliation: To allow privacy or not when evacuating.

I don't know if I would be too terribly concerned with plain water. After reading some posts in an enema enthusiast group, I'm more concerned about the additives.

Gianbattista said:

Forgive me Primalex its late here and my reading comprehension is probably not best for skim reading abstracts, but one would expect anything with metronidazole to reduce gut flora anyway potentially?

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It's a comparison of bacteria reduction of three types of enema, one type being plain water. Obviously, for comparison, you have to measure the bacteria reduction of all cases, including the plain water one. While the goal of the study was not to prove a harmful effect of water enemas, it does contain the effects of water enemas on the bacterial composition of the gut.

The result is of course that metronidazole is much more effective than plain water, but plain water was in 30% of the cases sufficient to reduce the bacteria to the intended low threshold.

Hmm, never tried it, but this is an interesting idea...

Primalex said:

It's a comparison of bacteria reduction of three types of enema, one type being plain water. Obviously, for comparison, you have to measure the bacteria reduction of all cases, including the plain water one. While the goal of the study was not to prove a harmful effect of water enemas, it does contain the effects of water enemas on the bacterial composition of the gut.

The result is of course that metronidazole is much more effective than plain water, but plain water was in 30% of the cases sufficient to reduce the bacteria to the intended low threshold.

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But said study has nothing to do with negative effects on daily life. Said study also notes that this includes an antibotic and points out in the abstract alone. This is not a number based on just water but a water enema and an antibotic. You cannot separate the two just to fit an arguement.

Gianbattista said:

Forgive me Primalex its late here and my reading comprehension is probably not best for skim reading abstracts, but one would expect anything with metronidazole to reduce gut flora anyway potentially?

It doesn't necessarily matter that it was a constant. Sorry, I am really skimming...and this might not be relevant.....just highlighting in case for those of you for whom its not the wee, small hours do more. Meanwhile I might go and take my not antibiotics!


Edit: I do wish someone would tell me what these enemas are as a tool. I have images of the dirty out water in water guns,

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Sorry I had missed your question in there. I can not speak for the OP, and tool seems like an odd choice to me. Depending on your viewpoint you can use enemas as a form of humiliation or control. Most of that would likely involve willingly give up control of something to another person, and if desired you could use lack of privacy as a humiliation thing (if that was their deal.) You could also use it for punishment of course. Depending on how you do it, the speed, water temp, and additives will change the experience. You could go from something soothing, to orgasmic and from tingling to horrific cramping depending on what you use.

Just like other things, like spanking, paddling etc.... it's all about the midst that you go in to it with. There are a lot or non-bdsm people who do it simply because the warmth is soothing or enjoyable, some enjoy the feeling or flow of the water and some have associations with them that add to it psychologically.

From a bdsm standpoint, it can become an example of a power exchange, the willingness to give over control of something society teaches us is bad/negative etc. The act of filling or the sensation of fullness can also be penetrating, much like finger or penis - except the "reach" is much further. If you add in the diversity of nozzles that people have created it can just add to that idea.

Based on the OP I would assume he uses tool in more of a punishment/humiliation way, but that is not the only way you can take it. It really comes down to the mindset of the people involved and how they approached.

Sorry for any typos, on my mobile.