Normal dom behavior?

Hi female sub here.

I have dabbled in this and I know I'm a sub. I have tried to teach my partners what I need to varying degrees of success. I met someone online who very carefully and respectfully found out I was a sub. He seemed excited about his discovery, as was I... we seemed to hit it off "outside" these parameters, so it seemed to both of us to be icing on the cake. He then started acting confusing. We had not yet met in person but he wanted to talk with me explicitly about what I would be doing for him (and he for me... he used all the right language and seemed legit). I was very excited to meet him but he kept pushing for an immediate sexual experience. I thought I was clear that I would be a very good girl when/if we decided this was a good fit, but in the end he asked me what his chances were of me going to his house and getting on my knees were. Like right away. I was like, no, I'm not agreeing to that before I even meet you. And he seemed offended that I would put him in the category of men who just want sex. But wasn't that what he was asking for? Was he testing me? It seemed too dangerous! I'm disappointed. I thought I had found a gem. Did I chicken out??? Give me your thoughts. Subs, doms, anyone. PS I'm a former professional concert dancer in my 40's ... I look young, and I'm generally recognized as beautiful... I'm finding this to be a real obstacle. The minute anyone finds out I'm submissive they get greedy.

I'm probably not a "true" sub, but I don't think you chickened out at all. You shouldn't meet anyone from Lit or anywhere else unless you feel completely comfortable with them and you have mutually similar expectations about what might happen.

He sounds like a douche.

No you didn't chicken out. i think anyone would have had the reaction you describe to that situation. I also wouldn't bet against the odds he was a faker and would have made a terrible dominant type. I mean when a guy asks "what his chances were of me going to his house and getting on my knees were" i immediately think of the comic Brad williams who said "that guy has a van and a basement." Or in this case a sound proofed basement.

DancergirlB said:

Hi female sub here.

I have dabbled in this and I know I'm a sub. I have tried to teach my partners what I need to varying degrees of success. I met someone online who very carefully and respectfully found out I was a sub. He seemed excited about his discovery, as was I... we seemed to hit it off "outside" these parameters, so it seemed to both of us to be icing on the cake. He then started acting confusing. We had not yet met in person but he wanted to talk with me explicitly about what I would be doing for him (and he for me... he used all the right language and seemed legit). I was very excited to meet him but he kept pushing for an immediate sexual experience. I thought I was clear that I would be a very good girl when/if we decided this was a good fit, but in the end he asked me what his chances were of me going to his house and getting on my knees were. Like right away. I was like, no, I'm not agreeing to that before I even meet you. And he seemed offended that I would put him in the category of men who just want sex. But wasn't that what he was asking for? Was he testing me? It seemed too dangerous! I'm disappointed. I thought I had found a gem. Did I chicken out??? Give me your thoughts. Subs, doms, anyone. PS I'm a former professional concert dancer in my 40's ... I look young, and I'm generally recognized as beautiful... I'm finding this to be a real obstacle. The minute anyone finds out I'm submissive they get greedy.

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Red flags. Don't ignore them. Give him an opportunity to get his headspace together if you want. Recommend meeting somewhere neutral and public if you are gonna pursue it even for a little bit. Look for other red flags.

What do you want? Long term? One nighter? Sounds like you want long term. I'd say you gotta learn to be friends first if that's the case.

Remember also, online anything runs at a different speed than offline. Usually.

What else does your prospect have going for him? Job? Clean? Baggage? Courtesy? Cleanliness? Hygiene? Married? Involved? What else do you have in common? Just an interest that you are submissive?

Write yourself a list of questions that are important to you about a prospect. And what are must haves, and definite deal breakers.

Given what little you wrote about him and you.... Prolly oughta run like hell, tbh

He has quite a bit going for him. And all the things he said up to that moment Led me to believe he was an experienced dom until he started pushing for an immediate experience after I was clear that I needed to meet in person first. I said I needed time to build trust before I gave myself to him and he said "there will be no decision, I will take you" that was a red flag to me... I'm all for being owned but not until it's earned. I am giving him some space and time though. When I shut him down boy did he calm down quick! Said he was proud of me and respected me, etc. I'm super submissive. I loved the words and praise. Not enough to put myself in a dangerous situation, but I'm truly confused. I'm very attracted to him. But I'm thinking he doesn't have the respect for my complicated sub brain.... I'm just super inexperienced. That doesn't mean I don't know who I am. I'm one hundred percent sure I'm a very submissive girl.

DancergirlB said:

Hi female sub here.

I have dabbled in this and I know I'm a sub. I have tried to teach my partners what I need to varying degrees of success. I met someone online who very carefully and respectfully found out I was a sub. He seemed excited about his discovery, as was I... we seemed to hit it off "outside" these parameters, so it seemed to both of us to be icing on the cake. He then started acting confusing. We had not yet met in person but he wanted to talk with me explicitly about what I would be doing for him (and he for me... he used all the right language and seemed legit). I was very excited to meet him but he kept pushing for an immediate sexual experience. I thought I was clear that I would be a very good girl when/if we decided this was a good fit, but in the end he asked me what his chances were of me going to his house and getting on my knees were. Like right away. I was like, no, I'm not agreeing to that before I even meet you. And he seemed offended that I would put him in the category of men who just want sex. But wasn't that what he was asking for? Was he testing me? It seemed too dangerous! I'm disappointed. I thought I had found a gem. Did I chicken out??? Give me your thoughts. Subs, doms, anyone. PS I'm a former professional concert dancer in my 40's ... I look young, and I'm generally recognized as beautiful... I'm finding this to be a real obstacle. The minute anyone finds out I'm submissive they get greedy.

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DancergirlB said:

He has quite a bit going for him. And all the things he said up to that moment Led me to believe he was an experienced dom until he started pushing for an immediate experience after I was clear that I needed to meet in person first. I said I needed time to build trust before I gave myself to him and he said "there will be no decision, I will take you" that was a red flag to me... I'm all for being owned but not until it's earned. I am giving him some space and time though. When I shut him down boy did he calm down quick! Said he was proud of me and respected me, etc. I'm super submissive. I loved the words and praise. Not enough to put myself in a dangerous situation, but I'm truly confused. I'm very attracted to him. But I'm thinking he doesn't have the respect for my complicated sub brain.... I'm just super inexperienced. That doesn't mean I don't know who I am. I'm one hundred percent sure I'm a very submissive girl.

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That is how you end up as a dismembered head inside a fridge.
Psychopaaaath ♪

Ok that's mostly a joke. From the little but probably significant info you've given he strikes me as just a regular womanising ape with the emotional depth of a kiddie pool. He wasn't 'testing you' in the way you're imagining, he's likely just poking to test your reaction to the sexual advances, to see how fast he can try to escalate the relationship. You know, the type who'll just say and do whatever it takes to drag as much sex out of you as possible and then run off when you get wise to it.

He may have acted offended that you put him in the category of men who want sex immediately. But from what you've written it looks clear that what actually put him in that category was his behavior. So if he's going to be offended, he should stop and think about the fact that pushing for sex right off the bat is kind of the defining characteristic of someone who just wants sex right away. If he doesn't want to be thought of as that kind of person, he should stop acting like that kind of person.

It's possible he was testing you. But if he was, that's one hell of a mind fuck exercise that it sounds like you didn't consent to. Mindfucks can be really hot, but most people who do them with good results will tell you it should be done with consent and some discussion beforehand. Speaking of consent, his comment "there will be no decision, I will take you" is very rapey and you're right to view it as a red flag. It might be a hot fantasy for a very first time meeting someone, but in practice it's very risky, and, if he truly means it, I think it's a big red flag.

As for the praise, combined with everything else it sounds like someone who knows how to manipulate submissive personalities by playing to their desire for approval and strong wish to please their dominant and earn their praise.

Based on the info you've shared, I have reservations about this guy. Anyone who consistently disregards the incredibly reasonable need to meet someone in person and get to know them before engaging in power exchange is probably not someone who should have power over someone else. If he truly cared for your well-being, he would respect your need for time to build trust. That's such an incredibly easy bar to clear that his inability to clear it really makes me wonder about the guy.

Trust your instincts. Something's not right here. Maybe he'll get his head on straight and show a more mature side, but so far that seems lacking.

Meet in public first. Have lunch together. See how you fit together socially. Trust your gut.

Anyone who demands you kneel to them before you even hug them hello is just being an ass.

DancergirlB said:

Hi female sub here.

I have dabbled in this and I know I'm a sub. I have tried to teach my partners what I need to varying degrees of success. I met someone online who very carefully and respectfully found out I was a sub. He seemed excited about his discovery, as was I... we seemed to hit it off "outside" these parameters, so it seemed to both of us to be icing on the cake. He then started acting confusing. We had not yet met in person but he wanted to talk with me explicitly about what I would be doing for him (and he for me... he used all the right language and seemed legit). I was very excited to meet him but he kept pushing for an immediate sexual experience. I thought I was clear that I would be a very good girl when/if we decided this was a good fit, but in the end he asked me what his chances were of me going to his house and getting on my knees were. Like right away. I was like, no, I'm not agreeing to that before I even meet you. And he seemed offended that I would put him in the category of men who just want sex. But wasn't that what he was asking for? Was he testing me? It seemed too dangerous! I'm disappointed. I thought I had found a gem. Did I chicken out??? Give me your thoughts. Subs, doms, anyone. PS I'm a former professional concert dancer in my 40's ... I look young, and I'm generally recognized as beautiful... I'm finding this to be a real obstacle. The minute anyone finds out I'm submissive they get greedy.

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The internet is full of skilled liars. Internet " Dom's"....it's laughable. Be a Skeptic, take your time getting to know someone and if they bring up wanting to meet for sex to soon , well there's your answer what he was about.

There are many lonely, needy people on the web and the professed "internet Dom's" know it. It's easy pickings for them. Follow your instincts.

Thanks for posting this - as a new sub myself, I appreciate learning from other experiences.

I do not think you chickened out at all. Trust your instincts.
Although the experience was disheartening it's probably best you found out sooner than later.

Lily

Blue said:

That is how you end up as a dismembered head inside a fridge.
Psychopaaaath ♪

Ok that's mostly a joke. From the little but probably significant info you've given he strikes me as just a regular womanising ape with the emotional depth of a kiddie pool. He wasn't 'testing you' in the way you're imagining, he's likely just poking to test your reaction to the sexual advances, to see how fast he can try to escalate the relationship. You know, the type who'll just say and do whatever it takes to drag as much sex out of you as possible and then run off when you get wise to it.

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This.
If you were not attracted to him physically, would any of this mean anything at all?

RawHumor said:

Meet in public first. Have lunch together. See how you fit together socially. Trust your gut.

Anyone who demands you kneel to them before you even hug them hello is just being an ass.

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Agree.
There has to be, at least, mutual chemistry.
But also... friendship and communication.

If he couldn't respect you enough to want to get to know you first before anything happened sexually, he's not worth your time.

Never, ever meet someone if it's not in public, and HE should have been the one making that the standard, if he were truly interested in more than sex.

Don't waste your time feeling confused or like you did anything wrong.

I concur with the wise folks who have posted above. Trust your gut. Etc. This guy has a lot of red flags. I also came across this in my wanderings today which may be useful to the OP or others.
(Note... what follows is a repost from tumblr - if you care to know which one, ask me.)


Questions to ask a prospective Dom

“What are some good questions to ask a prospective Dom to help spot the fakes and the predators?”

First principle: ask open ended questions.
Second principle: let the prospect keep talking.
Third principle: respond briefly (“Ah.” “I see.” that sort of thing).
Fourth principle: if he keeps bringing the conversation back to sexual matters, that’s a big red flag.

Now, to some specific questions. How the prospect answers these questions will be telling.

Tell me about your journey as a Dom. (let him ramble)

What is the most fulfilling part of being a Dom? (you want to hear things like the responsibility for guiding and directing and shaping you, not “having you suck my dick”)

Tell me about your last sub. ( note whether he speaks well or ill of her, regardless of how it ended)

Why did your last sub leave you? (she may not have been the one to leave, but the question will throw him off balance)

Which of your exes can I contact as a reference? (any Dom with any lived experience is going to have at least one ex who can speak to his qualifications)

Tell me about your mentor. (mentors are hard to come by these days, but “self taught” is often “badly taught”)

Tell me what non-kink things you bring to a scene. (you want to hear first aid kit, scissors to deal with rope-play mishaps in a hurry, H2O, snacks for aftercare)

How do you handle a safeword situation when the sub doesn’t have the power of speech? (you’re looking for him to talk about things like “safe gestures” or similar signals)

What is your 1 month vision for our dynamic if we decide to go forward? (you’re looking for the establishment of basic daily structure, rules, tasks, protocols).

3 month vision? (you’re looking for things like him holding you accountable, possibly the beginnings of orgasm control, etc)

1 year vision? (if he doesn’t have a 1 year vision, he’s most likely just looking to get laid)

Tell me 5 non-sexual things you would incorporate into our dynamic to help me feel my submission and your dominance? (you’re looking for things like good morning/good night, check ins, possibly clothing and meal approval, that sort of thing)

Be cagey, vet thoroughly, and above all, trust your gut. Your brain is unreliable, and your subby desires will get you in all kinds of trouble, but your gut never lies.


NOTE: These were compiled by a PYL with over 40 years of real time lived BDSM experience. He is not a fantasy guy or living in on-line only. You may or may not agree that this is the way YOU would approach these (Nezul ) - but these actually make pretty good sense to me, (otw I would not have posted it) and I have talked with PYL's who would not object to any of these things being asked. And in my experience - mentor often is one's sexual partner. I have had a number of PYL's tell me that the person who introduced them to BDSM and helped them understand their Dom nature were subs. This is NOT the same thing as self taught.

Also.... Yes. This list seems like a lot of questions to me too. I would probably ask the ones that seemed to apply to my situation or would help me the most, not use all of them like some kind of mindless playbook. I offered these as tools, not as prescription.

OP, also...
Welcome.

Yes, he was asking for something sexual.
No, it was not normal Dom behavior.

Normal would have been maybe trying to discuss kinky stuff a bit with you, like he did. But shutting up and focusing on other things as soon as you'd put him down, which he didn't.
I mean, it's understandable to be eager about those things when you meet a submissive you like. But way he acted? Meh. He confused sexual dominance with his dominance over you as a person, period.

He was a douche. Sorry it didn't work out. I guess it's still far better to know early than late, even though I know how much it sucks when the image in your head crumbles into dust.
But in fact a lot of guys on the Internet will be just like that. There are a lot of kids (adult kids) and people with insecurities and other problems here, who are desperately looking for a date.

I said I needed time to build trust before I gave myself to him and he said "there will be no decision, I will take you" that was a red flag to me... I'm all for being owned but not until it's earned. I am giving him some space and time though. When I shut him down boy did he calm down quick! Said he was proud of me and respected me, etc. I'm super submissive. I loved the words and praise

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This screams to me: MANIPULATION!!!!!
In the kind of scream that heavy metal rockstars do when they stagedive right at you.
It's a red flag in and on itself.
It's not his place to PRAISE you. It's a place to say "Sorry, I've was an over-eager dick. Could we forget it and move along?"

Seriously, he tried to break you. He couldn't. He praised you instead as if it was part of the plan all along.

Let me tell you what a true dominant would do. He wouldn't just go "I own you, on your knees!". That's stupid. I mean, what if that particular sub is not into it? More over, you don't own something or somebody just by declaring it - it sounds like child's play. "this is my toy!" "No, mine!" "It has been yours for 5 minutes already, it's my turn, it's mine!"

Look, girl. I'll be honest. The person you are into probably doesn't exist. With a bit of effort and careful planning I will come along as prince charming on Skype, when I'm not in reality.
What IS real are huge red flags waving all over.

If you want to - meet him in public. Tell him that submissive stuff is off the table for now, as well as sex.
Don't go to his place or invite him to yours until you are sure. He really does seem like a guy with poor mental breaks.

What is the most fulfilling part of being a Dom? (you want to hear things like the responsibility for guiding and directing and shaping you, not “having you suck my dick”)

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Um, it's not about responsibility and guiding for everyone. There are those who like to do kinky stuff in bed, and otherwise have a vanilla relationship. For example me, I'm a Dom.
Do I guide anyone anywhere? Shape them? Do I value my responsibility over them?
No.
Responsibility is a price I pay for being able to play - a very important price, but it's not like I enjoy it in any way specifically.

What I enjoy is tying a girl helpless and playing with her for mutual enjoyment. It's not wrong and it works.

Honestly, BDSM is a sexual thing. People do it FOR SEXUAL GRATIFICATION.
Someone tells you that he likes guiding and shaping you and taking responsibility - he's either a big fat liar or he's into manipulation more than into being a Dominant.
Sorry to break your bubble.

Which of your exes can I contact as a reference? (any Dom with any lived experience is going to have at least one ex who can speak to his qualifications)

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Bahaha, no.

Mixing exes into current relationship is such a bad habit. If a girl asked me of this - that would be MY red flag.

I don't ask her about her Ex'es, and she doesn't have to deal with mine.
All of this even outside BDSM.

In BDSM? Doubly so.

Tell me about your mentor. (mentors are hard to come by these days, but “self taught” is often “badly taught”)

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I have to wonder what sexy novels have you read.

90%+ of dominants and submissives never had a mentor. They learned it with their partners, step by step.

Tell me what non-kink things you bring to a scene. (you want to hear first aid kit, scissors to deal with rope-play mishaps in a hurry, H2O, snacks for aftercare)

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Very hard to answer that abstract question. What you mentioned is correct for hardcore bondage scene, but not for mild dom/sub scene. Why the fuck would you bring first aid kit for that, when all you are going to do is basically normal sex with roleplay?

Also, to get to the scenes where water and snacks would be required - is a LOOOOONG journey.

What is your 1 month vision for our dynamic if we decide to go forward? (you’re looking for the establishment of basic daily structure, rules, tasks, protocols).

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Depends on a dom, a sub and what they want. This applies only for "lifestyle" DS relationships.

3 month vision? (you’re looking for things like him holding you accountable, possibly the beginnings of orgasm control, etc)

1 year vision? (if he doesn’t have a 1 year vision, he’s most likely just looking to get laid)

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Extremely hard to plan, even with normal relationship. What do you want him to say? Get married and have kiddies?
I've known pairs who dated for 5 - 7 years before progressing their relationship in any meaningful way.

If I was asked that, the only answer would be "To hopefully still be together and enjoying the heck out of it"

Tell me 5 non-sexual things you would incorporate into our dynamic to help me feel my submission and your dominance? (you’re looking for things like good morning/good night, check ins, possibly clothing and meal approval, that sort of thing)

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Simply can't answer that before you know the sub well.


Bottomline: most of your questions are ridiculous.
Also I would feel like being questioned in front of a shooting squad, and that would tell me that the person (sub) on the other end is maniacally controlling person, probably nagging and not very pleasant to deal with.
It's a start of the relationship and you propose to bombard the guy with this crap about his Ex'es phone numbers and 1 year commitments.

NO!
Kinky relationship is A RELATIONSHIP. You need to start it like you would start any dating, and the red flags are the same. What cascadiabound has in mind is discussing "contract" details with no love, no nothing behind it - purely D&S relationship where you submit to somebody. While some may want that, this is clearly not the case with the OP.

We have criticized the guy for being interested only in sex. Well, guess what, cascadiabound's questions would make me feel like the girl is interested only in sex and DS stuff. If I'm me, I politely turn her down at that point. Simply not interested to have a "submissive" before I get a "girlfriend".
If I'm a douche like her man seems to be - It will only justify my sex pursues, if I got asked so many sex questions at once. It will really confuse me if she asked me 10 DS and sex questions, and then got angry at me for talking about sex all the time. And this time, I would be justified in my confusion, because these are mixed signals.

Sorry for quadruple post, I'll say one last thing before I shut up.

OP. In a DS relationship BOTH the sub and the dom decide how it goes. There is never a "You will not get to decide anything" bullshit, and don't take it from anyone. You can choose to give him power to make absolute decisions in certain aspects of your life. For example you may choose to say that he gets to decide what clothes you wear. But at the same time you leave the power to decide what you eat to yourself.
You can take that power away from him at any moment, if it stops being fun for you - and you should, in that case.

Any game, any new rule, any activity - should be dicussed by you two. In time, when you trust him completely, you may opt to give him more power so he doesn't ask you as much. In the beginning? He discusses everything with you.

He never orders before he gets permission to order something. He never tells you what he wants you to do before he knows that you want it too. He starts by asking you what you want out of the relationship, then he tells you his vision and asks how you feel about that.

If there's a mismatch in some area, you both reach consensus. Someone has to sacrifice, and it's not always the sub. A healthy practice is to make it as 50/50 as possible.

That's how you distinguish a healthy Dom from a jerk who wants to be in charge and not give anything in return.

And as a healthy Sub you should know how to behave too. That your wellbeing is in your hands - you are not a toy, and you choose your master and what he does to you. You need to always be vocal if something disturbs you. You need to always be clear if his order is something that you don't like. This is what your good dominant would expect from you, and this is what a bad dominant would try to shame you for.
A good dominant will be happy that you are giving him opportunities to understand you more and fine-tune his dominance over you. Happy that you let him know, and by that let him avoid hurting you in a bad way. A good Dom will be very disappointed if you hid something from him and endured things you didn't find fun "for him". This may seem counter-intuitive, but a good Dom may want you to suffer for him, but even if he's a sadist he will always want you to suffer reasonably and get your fun out of it. Only a psychopath would want you to suffer and get nothing in return from it.
A bad one will get angry that you argue with him and that you aren't eager to do whatever he wants. He will tell you that you are a bad Sub for questioning his absolute power. That he gets to choose and you get to take it no matter what it is, because that's the true form of submission.

A good Dom knows what's good for you, because he'd put a lot of effort into talking to you, studying you and knowing what you really want.
A bad Dom will say he knows what's good for you because he has POWA and you have none, so shut up and take it.

The stuff like safety measures and items you bring to the scene - YOU need to know them as much as your Dom. You BOTH need to know them and take precautions, because two heads are better than one. You BOTH are responsible, not only the Dominant.
Being a sub is a responsibility. You are responsible for having a clear head, knowing when to safeword and not hesitating to use it. Knowing your limits and the limits of your body. Knowing what you can and cannot do in the scene and not even attempting the latter.

Play safe.

p.s. Everything above - it's good if you find a Dominant who understands that already. But keep in mind that many people are misguided, because they don't have a good source of information. They have a shallow understanding of what DS is and how to be a Dominant. They may not be bad people, but just confused people - confused by porn or something they read on the net.
In that case, you can try and teach them. A Sub can teach a Dom to be a good Dom. There's nothing wrong with it. And you will very quickly see if he's good or not, because a good one will learn eagerly everything that he can to improve, while a bad one will tell you he doesn't need any teachings.

Listen to your gut. He sounds like he is less about being a dom and more about getting some pussy while boosting his self esteem by seeing how far he can push you.

I wouldn't come at someone with such a long list of questions but I would have some rules you make for yourself to use as a vetting process for a future lover so you can fall back on them n when you're not all excited and hot and bothered.

I've had a situation where I just wanted rough sex. Someone like that guy would probably be good for that but you sound like you want a true long term power play relationship and for that you need to be able to say "yeah that totally goes against my criteria for a dom" which you'll do by having your list in your head.

What your post is telling me is that you KNOW he likely isn't the one but you need someone to tell you to move on. I'll say that you will likely be disappointed if you pursue this relationship and you should take what you learned here as you discover someone who will truly hear you when you tell him how you want to be treated. (In this case you expressed that you weren't agreeing to sex but he didn't hear you. What other things will you say that he also refuses to hear?) I'm a sub and I'd move on if I was you.

Making another book Nezhoul?

Ten books

Please please please follow your instinct - never, ever meet anyone if you have even a tiny hint of a red flag... it’s a dangerous world out there. I get the complicated sub brain thing and someone worth your time will make the effort to move at your pace.

I saw a thing on tumblr the other day where a dom explained he thinks about it as his sub drawing the outline of a picture, she can draw whatever she wants... within that picture he can colour things how he wants, paint the sky purple if he wants but he never, ever crosses her lines... I’d be very concerned about any dom that didn’t take the time to figure you and your boundaries out before barking orders. There are a lot of abusers who hide behind the idea of a dominant persona. They are two different things - he should make you feel safe.

Stay safe and if you do meet him, make it a public space and make sure someone knows who you are going to meet - normal internet meeting rules apply, take care lovely, x

I really struggle with the specifics posted here, some of which I am not quite on board with, but my concern is the more we post about the actions of a real Dom versus a Troll, we might be educating the sub, but we educate the Trolls as well.

This particular situation, to me, was a matter of the guy being a Troll and not a Dom. Trying to hard to thrust his "dominance" on the subbie.

Don't be disheartened, though. Doms get the sub Trolls too, either women who want to be "made" submissive or the men posing as women. Sad but we must not let them stand in the way of the beauty of this lifestyle.


PS, all the subbies that posted here, beware of the influx of Trolls that will be contacting you.