the marks of a slave

We're ok, though one of our schools down in lower Manhattan has not been deemed safe to enter yet. An underground parking garage across the street filled with water and the cars just started floating to the surface. No one knows what impact the water, the fuel and the bobbing cars had on the foundation of the skyscraper above it.

The whole city is exhausted and on edge, facing circumstances they haven't known before. For most of us, not much has really changed; and it's hard to justify these feelings. But everyone I know is re-examining their priorities.

That city has really been shit on.
 
That city has really been shit on.

That is one thing I haven't seen, though. No one is feeling sorry for themselves. Some people are angry, pointing to long-standing inequities in resource distribution; but I haven't met anyone who feels like the city got the raw end of the deal.

(A political rant - I've heard that our Senator, Chuck Schumer, held up the release of a post-Katrina FEMA report analyzing the potential impact of flooding in major cities across the nation. It was completed and ready for public release about five years ago. I'm wondering why he didn't release it - given the huge surge in waterfront development - and whether or not coastal communities in NYC would have taken the storm more seriously and/or been better prepared if the report had been made public.)
 
:eek:

(I sometimes go back and re-read this thread, and I can't tell you the number of times I have noticed how brilliant you are - hitting the nail right on the head - and then watched as I walked determinedly in the other direction. Though I am not always able to look in the direction you're pointing, cause I'm just uncomfortable with what I think I'll see, I have been able to look back later.

I just wanted to tell you that. Cause I'm going to walk in the other direction now...)

Yes, like I said: It would be rally nice to not know what she's talking about.:eek:
 
:eek:

(I sometimes go back and re-read this thread, and I can't tell you the number of times I have noticed how brilliant you are - hitting the nail right on the head - and then watched as I walked determinedly in the other direction. Though I am not always able to look in the direction you're pointing, cause I'm just uncomfortable with what I think I'll see, I have been able to look back later.

I just wanted to tell you that. Cause I'm going to walk in the other direction now...)

Oh, I keep going that way too. I'm parroting stuff said to me by a very smart lady who uses content photos, keeps her life simple and her bills paid better than I do. I'm trying to listen more to her.
 
On Sunday morning, he reintroduced proactive service as the ultimate goal.
"You need to be able to do what is required without being told to."

Proactive service without obedience is meaningless.
But obedience without proactive service is tiresome.

He wants to be pleasantly surprised.

My service is always proactive. It has to be, due to Sir's health and the treatments which need to be done regardless of how either he or I feel.

It's not always that either - I make sure our bills are paid on time, that He always has a good supply of meds, I go do the grocery shopping when we start to run out of stuff. I remind Him of appointments, call the ambulance if it's needed...lol if I waited for Him to tell me, He would have been dead several times over :eek:

Sir has deliberately encouraged me to be more proactive. Early in our relationship, I would always ask what He would like me to do, now I just do it :)
 
I am still a disappointing slave, far more likely to protect my own interests than promote his. And the fundamental problem is always doubt.

I begin to doubt that this choice is healthy, wholesome. I begin to doubt the source of his intentions, the source of our intentions. I begin to think that he will destroy me and/or the things I cherish and that it is my responsibility to make sure I am not destroyed.

And that doubt turns the sweet honey of service and devotion into hot molten lead which - when cooled - transforms my normally flexible nature into a rigid, insensitive, and potentially toxic "shield."
 
Doubt, a status between belief and disbelief, involves uncertainty or distrust or lack of sureness of an alleged fact, an action, a motive, or a decision. Doubt brings into question some notion of a perceived "reality", and may involve delaying or rejecting relevant action out of concerns for mistakes or faults or appropriateness. Some definitions of doubt emphasize the state in which the mind remains suspended between two contradictory propositions and unable to assent to either of them.

The concept of doubt covers a range of phenomena: one can characterise both deliberate questioning of uncertainties and an emotional state of indecision as "doubt."

- from Wikipedia

If doubt stands at the fork between belief and disbelief, is it just a matter of "choosing" to trust? Is it necessary - as doubting Thomas did - to use empirical tests to verify your choice? How do you know when doubt is just the mask your fear is wearing? When do fear and doubt have merit?
 
I don’t know but usually when I am doubting, it’s for a reason that is not clear to me yet. This is because my belly knows the answer before my heart, or mind can comprehend.
 
Golden words from my professor.

"Other people work from success to success. You're at your best when you work from doubt to doubt."
 
Doubt can serve you well, if you train it. It must become a way of knowing, a good critic. Every time doubt wants to spoil something for you, ask why it finds something ugly and demand proofs. Thus tested by you, doubt may become bewildered and embarrassed, even aggressive. But don't give in, demand reasons and be persistent and attentive every single time, and the day will come when, instead of a destroyer, he will become one of your best servants—perhaps one of the most intelligent of those who help you build your life.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
Letters to a Young Poet

edited to add - as soon as I posted this, I knew I'd posted it before - July 10, 2010 http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=34519379&highlight=rilke#post34519379

It just goes to show how long it takes to really understand something.
 
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Someone I respect a great deal points out that fear - of the "I'm about to be destroyed kind" - is a state that can lead to great openness of mind, to the direct perception of life exactly as it is, to a certain kind of bliss, if you don't shut down, wall yourself off, call a halt, back away, until the fear subsides.
 
re: phase change

I am still a disappointing slave, far more likely to protect my own interests than promote his. And the fundamental problem is always doubt. [...]
And that doubt turns the sweet honey of service and devotion into hot molten lead which - when cooled - transforms my normally flexible nature into a rigid, insensitive, and potentially toxic "shield."

I don't want to further complicate this very complex metaphor, but when lead is in a solid state, it is always a very malleable substance.
 
I don't want to further complicate this very complex metaphor, but when lead is in a solid state, it is always a very malleable substance.

Then there is hope for me yet. . . . :)

(It's good to see you, Mitchell67. I have missed you.)
 
I feel like I should apologize for taking your compliment so poorly.

as a young adult, compliments came from grandparents, or from people looking to either take advantage of me or set me up for public humiliation. To some extent I occasionally still feel taken advantage of/ for granted even when my wife compliments me in certain ways... which I fully acknowledge is sad and fucked up.

the notion that my dominant side is at all independent from my submissive experience is... fledgling?

Stag, I think you're wonderful. I always enjoy reading your posts. And I agree with you - that your personality and massage training probably have a lot more significance. What do I know, really? I offer my opinions blithely, having seen only the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

I always think of you in the winter. The white stag of legend, whose appearance always brings with it an encounter with magic and enchantment. It is a very strong persona. Sometimes we (and I include myself in this pronoun) feel we need to make ourselves smaller than we actually are in order to fit into our day-to-day worlds. I often wonder what would happen if I didn't.
 
My work outside the home is gaining momentum. And though my slave mind is extremely beneficial in my work, I am losing my status as slave at home.

I cannot be his slave if I am unable to meet his needs.

I am frequently unable to meet his needs when I prioritize my own agenda over his.

I am disappointed.

I want my slavery in my work environment to be good enough.

It isn't.
 
re: analytical

My work outside the home is gaining momentum. And though my slave mind is extremely beneficial in my work, I am losing my status as slave at home.
I cannot be his slave if I am unable to meet his needs.
I am frequently unable to meet his needs when I prioritize my own agenda over his.
I am disappointed.
I want my slavery in my work environment to be good enough.
It isn't.

I only hear your side of this notion of disappointment. You seem to be defining what your servitude and determining whether you meet your own standards, or at least, whether you feel you meet your own standards.
What exactly is a slave status? Are you buying more take out and have your floors not been scrubbed recently? Is another slave gaining status while yours drops?
Really you cannot be his slave? Is there a cutoff, too, when he stops being a master? Does the same apply to being a wife?
You contradict yourself then by writing that you want your slavery in your work environment to be good enough. Who is the master in your work environment? Is it your own ego?
I get the sense that you use the notion of disappointment as a cover for other dynamics at play in this metadrama. Have you even identified the causes of your disappointment if that is all it is about?
Would it not be more productive for all if instead you explained better what you are gaining momentum on and pondered why you undermine it by stressing the negative implications?
 
I only hear your side of this notion of disappointment. You seem to be defining what your servitude and determining whether you meet your own standards, or at least, whether you feel you meet your own standards.
What exactly is a slave status? Are you buying more take out and have your floors not been scrubbed recently? Is another slave gaining status while yours drops?
Really you cannot be his slave? Is there a cutoff, too, when he stops being a master? Does the same apply to being a wife?
You contradict yourself then by writing that you want your slavery in your work environment to be good enough. Who is the master in your work environment? Is it your own ego?
I get the sense that you use the notion of disappointment as a cover for other dynamics at play in this metadrama. Have you even identified the causes of your disappointment if that is all it is about?
Would it not be more productive for all if instead you explained better what you are gaining momentum on and pondered why you undermine it by stressing the negative implications?

Sometimes I wish he wrote more frequently, so you could read his take on my statements without having his voice filtered through me.

In the earliest days of this thread, though, I asked him if I could have it all to myself, to create a place where I could write about my slavery and the internal experiences and thoughts it gives rise to. A "room of my own," so to speak. He liked the glimpses it gave him of my internal world. So, he stayed a reader - and I've tried to add his voice whenever he comments directly on one of my posts.

I've been writing here for a few years, though, and over time - things change. Power shifts in subtle and not so subtle ways. Desires are acted on, and new fantasies take shape. Reality creates opportunities and obstacles that change the course of a life.

It's easier to write this morning, because last night - for the first time in months - he said "I want to be your master." It was a direct response to me changing my behavior around him - being more pleasing, more responsive, catering to his needs without being spoken to, sexually arousing him, and putting his interests and priorities ahead of my own.

When I say "I cannot be his slave," I mean that he has told me he is not interested in being my master. Over the years, he has made it very clear to me that he is not interested in "pretending M/s" where it doesn't exist. If I am not actively serving him - which may be because I am prioritizing the needs of our children, my work, my friends and/or myself over his explicit instructions - then he does not want to be master. (If my self-prioritizing only happens once or twice, he'll make a joke of it, but eventually it stops being ironic and is just annoying.)

As soon as I demonstrate my willingness to obey and serve him, my "status" as slave returns and rises simultaneously. Though there are circumstances in which I judge myself more harshly than he does, circumstances in which I think I have failed and he is perfectly happy with my effort, we are not there right now. A couple of months ago, he told me point blank that I was lying to myself if I thought I was a slave. I was still his wife, and would continue to be, but not his slave. And though he is not seeing other slaves, he has been writing to them on fetlife.

My disappointment comes, because I have loved being his slave. My experience as his slave allowed me to develop certain mental, emotional and spiritual behaviors that have been of clear benefit to me in my everyday world. I feel more integrated and healthier, less self-centered and anxious than I did before I was a 24/7 slave.

As I think you are aware, I am working outside the home - and though I don't make much money (which would better serve him by relieving him of the burden of supporting our family) - my work gives me tremendous opportunities to be of service in my community. Other people - outside our home - perceive me as a modest, generous, hard worker. And, honestly, in the long run I feel much more comfortable building my self-esteem on the work I'm doing in my community rather than on my success as a slave in a TPE.

With my busier schedule, I do order takeout more frequently, and the floors do go unscrubbed. However, in the long trajectory of our relationship, I am still much better today as a domestic servant than I was in my early 30's. As a young woman, I was still fighting a lost cause - hoping against hope that being a modern woman meant I wouldn't have to spend my days doing menial housework. Today, in large part because of my experience as a slave, I am much, much happier doing housework - deeply satisfied by the task itself. I just don't have as much time.

My disappointment arises because I want to be his slave. Sometimes because I want to escape the responsibilities of my work and lose myself in simple tasks that are clearly defined. Sometimes because I miss the peace of mind and meditative state that slavery induced in me. Sometimes because I want an orgasm.

Primarily though, because it is the nature of our relationship together - and without it, we don't interact much. Writing of my disappointment here a few days ago caused me to focus on our relationship, to focus on him, and make the shifts in my priorities that are necessary to serve him as he wants to be served.

It may sound like it's all just me spinning my own mental wheels. But I only get to be his slave, when he's willing to be my master.
 
Here's the problem - he doesn't perceive the work I'm doing as having value in his world.

He recognizes its value in the world, but doesn't see any real benefits - only liabilities - in his world. The effort I put into that work - which is significant - is effort I am not giving his priorities, allowing them to languish until I have time.

On the other hand, his ability and willingness to support the family has allowed me the freedom to create this new work. Which means his effort - with is significant - has clear benefits in my world.

If it is simply an issue of following directions, I get it. I either do or do not make the phone call, file the form, wash the dishes, do the laundry. I completely understand his frustration when I don't do something he has asked me to do (though I sometimes wish he could see things from my perspective).

The problem is - I don't want to compromise my own growth, and the growth of my new business, in order to be a better slave. I thought maybe I did. But I really don't.

I recognize how lucky I am to be in this position. I am incredibly fortunate. But I have also worked very, very hard - and made many sacrifices over the years to arrive at this point in our relationship.

The question - Can I still be his slave and create my own priorities?
 
Here's the problem - he doesn't perceive the work I'm doing as having value in his world.

He recognizes its value in the world, but doesn't see any real benefits - only liabilities - in his world. The effort I put into that work - which is significant - is effort I am not giving his priorities, allowing them to languish until I have time.

On the other hand, his ability and willingness to support the family has allowed me the freedom to create this new work. Which means his effort - with is significant - has clear benefits in my world.

If it is simply an issue of following directions, I get it. I either do or do not make the phone call, file the form, wash the dishes, do the laundry. I completely understand his frustration when I don't do something he has asked me to do (though I sometimes wish he could see things from my perspective).

The problem is - I don't want to compromise my own growth, and the growth of my new business, in order to be a better slave. I thought maybe I did. But I really don't.

I recognize how lucky I am to be in this position. I am incredibly fortunate. But I have also worked very, very hard - and made many sacrifices over the years to arrive at this point in our relationship.

The question - Can I still be his slave and create my own priorities?

I think you've answered your own question. If he does value you more than just as his slave? How can he not value your world, how can he not value your growth or your business? Do you only value him only as your Master or Owner, if owner is the term you prefer? It doesn't seem so.

If all he cares about is how it effects HIM and you're willing to except that, give up your growth, become stagnant, give up your world, give up your business become his doormat because that's what you really are to him a doormat. But be prepared because that type of man, is going to eventually become tired of you and replace you with another, no matter how good a slave you happen to be.

If he really cares for you he'll compromise, he gets you sometimes as a slave, at other times as a free woman who can stand on her own two feet. I don't see you as a weak woman, you have freewill, you can walk away if that is what you have to do. Hard choice, yes but one you can make if you have to.

(though I sometimes wish he could see things from my perspective)
My relationship is not like yours but when the day comes that Jessie can't at least try to see things from my perspective or at least compromise, is the day I walk, no matter if I'm still in love or not.

Just my feelings.
 
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I think you've answered your own question. If he does value you more than just as his slave? How can he not value your world, how can he not value your growth or your business? Do you only value him only as your Master or Owner, if owner is the term you prefer? It doesn't seem so.

If all he cares about is how it effects HIM and you're willing to except that, give up your growth, become stagnant, give up your world, give up your business become his doormat because that's what you really are to him a doormat. But be prepared because that type of man, is going to eventually become tired of you and replace you with another, no matter how good a slave you happen to be.

If he really cares for you he'll compromise, he gets you sometimes as a slave, at other times as a free woman who can stand on her own two feet. I don't see you as a weak woman, you have freewill, you can walk away if that is what you have to do. Hard choice, yes but one you can make if you have to.

My relationship is not like yours but when the day comes that Jessie can't at least try to see things from my perspective or at least compromise, is the day I walk, no matter if I'm still in love or not.

Just my feelings.

I appreciate your feelings.

We took this option off the table 25 years ago. It isn't possible to walk away.

Which means he "gets me sometimes as a slave, at other times as a free woman who can stand on her own two feet." That's really where it's at (though I do stand on my own two feet as a slave too :)).

It feels a little wishy-washy to me, though. I want to know where these two feet are standing - independently of my behavior. In other words, I don't want my slavery to depend on my good behavior as a slave. I want my slavery to continue even while I'm the worst slave on earth, so that I have a chance to come round again. He thinks that's pretty self-serving on my part.

I have to agree.
 
The only formal agreement we have made is that we will not leave. No matter what. Apart from that there are no rules. Just the consequences of our action.

Neither of us is spared from the other's bad behavior. I have learned, as his "slave," not to harbor any expectations of change. Change occurs, but it is not because I demand it.

On the other hand, also because I am his "slave," when he asks for something, I try to do what he asks of me. He has learned that I may not succeed.

We're both happy in this arrangement, happier than we were before.

There was a time when I wanted a set of written rules. The instruction manual that would help me get it right. It's much harder without it, but my understanding of cause and effect, of my own values and desires, of his values and desires, of the laws of nature (including human nature), are much deeper for having to learn it by trial and error.

Because there are no safety nets though, it is vitally important that I trust him. And I do. I have lived with this man for twenty three years. He still continues to surprise me. But I trust him deeply.

I would not willingly give up so much to someone I did not know well and trust implicitly.

I wrote this in November 2008. What's changed?
 
I want to clarify for myself what my slavery has meant, so that - if I shed the slave-skin, I know what I am leaving behind.

In a volatile long-term relationship between two very strong, but complementary (and sometimes contradictory) forces, my slavery gave us both an opportunity to step outside of the conflict we can generate with each other. With such clear definitions of authority and decision-making procedures, I was able to relax in a way that I am not usually relaxed.

Like a huge sigh that signals my surrender to the force that he is in my life, my slavery allowed me to rest because - really - my little agenda in the world is not that important. At least no more important than anyone else's.

My slavery gave him pleasure, a kind of pleasure he didn't think he would actually find in this world. Which also means - having tasted that pleasure - he really misses it when I am unable to provide it. And the reward of giving him that pleasure - to this woman who loves to be a source of people's smiles, joy and release - was so deeply satisfying, I really miss it when I am unable to provide it.

Because he also rewarded me with the kind of sexual experiences I enjoy when I pleased him, I also had great sex. I miss that too.

My slavery emptied my mind of its habitual clutter. It gave me clear purpose and direction. It gave me simple, uncomplicated pleasures. It helped me overcome habitual patterns that were the source of struggle and conflict.

My work gives me clear purpose and direction - but it is not simple and uncomplicated. My mind is cluttered. And though I am able to extend what I've learned during my slavery to avoid struggle and conflict, at home with him I do not feel relaxed and at ease.

Is it possible to be slave at home and still do this work in the community?

He thinks I should be able to compartmentalize my life more successfully. But I am an addict through and through, with extremely poor self-discipline. Is it simply a matter of setting work hours? and sticking to them?

In the past, I have dropped my agenda at a moment's notice to respond to him - any time of day or week. I still do it in the margins of our day. But with so many hours spent at work, I'm much more likely to keep the list of his agenda, and work at it steadily over time. And there's a huge difference in the experience.

What is the single most significant difference I can make in my behavior, when I feel I must protect the boundaries of my work?
 
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