Your Vision or Popular Opinion

What do you care about more as an author: publishing work that fits your unique vision, even if it's not accepted very well, or publishing work that's very popular, even if you had to stray from your initial design?

I definitely write stories the way I want to without any concern for how they'll be accepted. My writing is entirely for me; publishing is just a fun thing to do.

There's no such thing as a majority popular opinion at a story site as broad-based as Literotica, so a writer might as well go with her/his own vision.

I might add that if you truly write to your own wishes and needs, there's no reason to even ask about popular opinion on the discussion board.

sr71plt said:

There's no such thing as a majority popular opinion at a story site as broad-based as Literotica, so a writer might as well go with her/his own vision.

I might add that if you truly write to your own wishes and needs, there's no reason to even ask about popular opinion on the discussion board.

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No, you can't write a story to appeal to every person who reads a story on this site, but you can definitely tailor your writing to hit specific groups, especially within specific genres.

And the idea of the thread wasn't to ask for input on what I should do; it was question about how others here write.

John988 said:

No, you can't write a story to appeal to every person who reads a story on this site, but you can definitely tailor your writing to hit specific groups, especially within specific genres.

And the idea of the thread wasn't to ask for input on what I should do; it was question about how others here write.

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A question run on the discussion board about twice a week. Writing to specific groups isn't the same thing as popular opinion and even here, specific groups are so splintered in what they want here that that discussion--appearing here a couple of times a week--is always pretty meaningless.

Again, if you truly write to your own vision you have no need to post to the discussion board about popular opinion.

sr71plt said:

A question run on the discussion board about twice a week. Writing to specific groups isn't the same thing as popular opinion and even here, specific groups are so splintered in what they want here that that discussion--appearing here a couple of times a week--is always pretty meaningless.

Again, if you truly write to your own vision you have no need to post to the discussion board about popular opinion.

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Yes, but you've been around here for a long time Pilot and you've seen it all many times. Some of us are newer and we raise the same questions coz it's new or interesting to us. This being one of those topics.

sr71plt said:

A question run on the discussion board about twice a week. Writing to specific groups isn't the same thing as popular opinion and even here, specific groups are so splintered in what they want here that that discussion--appearing here a couple of times a week--is always pretty meaningless.

Again, if you truly write to your own vision you have no need to post to the discussion board about popular opinion.

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I don't need to do anything. I posted because I thought it was an interesting question to ask of others. If you've seen it a million and one times, then you should have had no problem ignoring it. If it is such a meaningless post then it would have died, and it wouldn't have been on the radar for more than a day.

So, you've spoken your mind, and I've spoken mine. Let's call it quits now.

John988 said:

I don't need to do anything. I posted because I thought it was an interesting question to ask of others. If you've seen it a million and one times, then you should have had no problem ignoring it. If it is such a meaningless post then it would have died, and it wouldn't have been on the radar for more than a day.

So, you've spoken your mind, and I've spoken mine. Let's call it quits now.

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Don't take it personally. He's snide like that with just about everyone.

MelissaBaby said:

Don't take it personally. He's snide like that with just about everyone.

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Between Pilot and Noirtrash, we're caught in the crossfire. Duck for cover and wave the white flag. Coming out with hands up. Don't shoot me, I just play the piano.... and drink waaaaay to much coffee.

It was an interesting question. Me, I like popular acclaim, I'd like to get some novels done and published and I'm a big believer in writing for my readers. But I like to combine that with stuff I want to write. Like romances with real bikers instead of the make believe ones you find in romance novels. Real action heroines who are believable and who fuck like minks in heat. Sad romances that have old Marines sniffling into tissues. That kind of stuff and I better cut down on the coffee here.

And Pilot is snide but he's basically a nice guy under that snarky exterior. Anyone who can fly an sr71 and write gay / bi romances is cool in my book. So go with the flow here..... lol. And I say this as one who has been snarked at.

As a non fiction writer I thought this might be an intriguing forum to visit even though I've never tried my hand at erotica. I figure writing advice is writing advice.

But this is the third thread I have looked at and the same person is trolling by throwing their self perceived superiority around.

Hint, this person starts a lot of posts with how many stories they have published here and for sale.

One would think that if someone posted that many stories, they wouldn't need to discuss it all the time on the forums.

Okay, I sunk low and stooped to that same level. Apologies. Now I'll go back to the porn threads where people are out for fun and aren't snarky and belligerent.

The person who warned me about this forum and the three or four posters who ruin it were right. Now I owe them money.

But at least I found out quickly so thanks for that.

John988 said:

What do you care about more as an author: publishing work that fits your unique vision, even if it's not accepted very well, or publishing work that's very popular, even if you had to stray from your initial design?

I definitely write stories the way I want to without any concern for how they'll be accepted. My writing is entirely for me; publishing is just a fun thing to do.

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I write just for me.
If I manage to finish the story properly (rare) and publish, I'm happy.

I think the OP's question is a good one. My own view is that it's not a clear cut choice. A writer should, in my opinion, strive to realize his/her artistic vision. But, at the same time, a writer should be humble enough to realize that the input and advice of others may help the writer achieve that vision. The great thing about Literotica is the sheer number of readers. An author should, IMO, take advantage of that fact to try to get as much input as possible about the author's stories. Be an attentive and non-defensive recipient of criticism, and use whatever criticism you get to be the best writer you can be.

After posting stories on LIT a bit you may start questioning why you bother. What's in it for you? What's the reward?

You may want to "hone your craft", write better and better. You may want brownie points: big votes, lotsa faves, nice comments, etc. Those are the rewards; are they satisfactory? After a bit you may realize that you're only writing for your personal gratification because nobody is paying you.

So you get to decide. Are you most happy with the feedback / brownie points, or your increasing skill, or just getting yourself off? If it's brownie points, do you feel a need to pander to a perceived audience? Pandering is easy. Gets boring after awhile, though.

Don’t try to figure out what other people want to hear from you; figure out what you have to say. It’s the one and only thing you have to offer.
– Barbara Kingsolver

Hypoxia said:

After posting stories on LIT a bit you may start questioning why you bother. What's in it for you? What's the reward?

You may want to "hone your craft", write better and better. You may want brownie points: big votes, lotsa faves, nice comments, etc. Those are the rewards; are they satisfactory? After a bit you may realize that you're only writing for your personal gratification because nobody is paying you.

So you get to decide. Are you most happy with the feedback / brownie points, or your increasing skill, or just getting yourself off? If it's brownie points, do you feel a need to pander to a perceived audience? Pandering is easy. Gets boring after awhile, though.

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I think those are a good few of the stages we all seem to go thru as we evolve as writers. I started out just wanting to see if readers liked my stories without knowing anything much about writing. I hadn't even read anything on how to write. I just used someone else's story as a starting point and got going. Three or four rejections later it finally got accepted and I started on the sequel.

So then, yeah, I started to try and hone my writing skills and I've been doing that ever since with varying degrees of success, where I right now define success as a combination of ratings, views, feedback and comments plus some unsolicited paid commissions that unexpectedly came my way.

So what you said, yep, I agree. For me, LIT is a great place to learn and get better before I try and sell stuff of my own.

I write what I like to read. If someone else likes it, it's all good. If they don't, oh well.

MelissaBaby said:

Don't take it personally. He's snide like that with just about everyone.

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On top of that, it's hard to take him seriously. There were only 32 SR-71's ever built (12 lost in accidents), so his claim that he was a SR-71 pilot raised my BS meter. How many Blackbird pilots were there ever? 50? 60? And most of them are dead, or are pushing 80.

And how many of that subset were gay? Especially, given the attitude towards gay people in the military at the time -- 60's and 70's.

Growing up, my best friend's dad worked for Lockheed (Skunk Works) and worked on the Stealth program. From his inside perspective, SR-71 pilots (really all test pilots) didn't overtly try to draw attention to themselves, their roles, or their missions; and don't try to promote themselves like Lit pilot does, and still don't

From my experience those that brag about their past military experience -- claiming to be Green Berets, Navy Seals, etc. are usually full of shit. Real hero's don't feel the need to draw attention to themselves like that.

Think about it, if pilot was actually a gay SR-71 pilot during that time period, it would be headline news, and he would be on talk shows telling his story. The LGBT community would be eating this up -- the elite of the elite US military pilots was a gay man.

Dream_Operator said:

On top of that, it's hard to take him seriously. There were only 32 SR-71's ever built (12 lost in accidents), so his claim that he was a SR-71 pilot raised my BS meter. How many Blackbird pilots were there ever? 50? 60? And most of them are dead, or are pushing 80.

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Hmm. The age could be right.

Pilot uses the SR71 as a phallic reference.

Dream_Operator said:

On top of that, it's hard to take him seriously. There were only 32 SR-71's ever built (12 lost in accidents), so his claim that he was a SR-71 pilot raised my BS meter. How many Blackbird pilots were there ever? 50? 60? And most of them are dead, or are pushing 80.

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My personal policy is to take people at face value and just accept they are who they say they are. Why worry about it. You are who you want to be. I'm not 100% Chinese but that's more or less how I portray myself online. Who cares? I just accept Pilot is Pilot and you are you and Hypoxia likes to cuddle bears whereas I prefer them as rugs.

Anyhow, why dive off into personalities, we all have our quirks. Pilots not the only snarky one around here. God knows I've had my moments. (Blushes). There's few enough of us here and I hate to be the voice of reason. It's so unaccustomed. I blame it on the coffee. I haven't had any for hours.

John988 said:

What do you care about more as an author: publishing work that fits your unique vision, even if it's not accepted very well, or publishing work that's very popular, even if you had to stray from your initial design?

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I write to my own vision, for my own purposes, fantasies, memories and desires.

I get a thrill like we all do, watching a story take off - and in my little world, that's several tens of thousands of views, my biggest read is about 60k views I think (incest, what a surprise). But it's always relative to my own bench mark - which I delude myself is quite high, but others might think is quite low.

I'm surprised on occasion at what does run "strong", readers being unpredictable creatures at the best of times (so why waste time trying to predict them), and my story file is sufficiently Red H that I know my writing works for some. My comments file has some treasures in it, so I know on occasion a story has REALLY worked for someone - when a reader writes that my world is a "safe haven" for her, then I'm doing good for that someone, in their world full of shit. My writing a haven? That's warm and fuzzy, right (write) there. For me, my favourite comments are those along the lines of "...not the norm around here..." Good, I've succeeded then.

Would I ever pander to "popularity" - in the oft-expressed view of many writers here on AH? Fuck no, fuck that, who wants to be like all the rest of you lot

I mean, to be like that, I'd have to write 20k a day like Chloe, 100 posts a day like Pilot, write sex scenes in three words like Noir (140 characters, here's looking at you, kid), chase hurricanes in boats like Tex, opine on tea and herrings (and women in stockings) like Ogg and Handley Page (remember the war, Daddy), get upset about tenses like Simon, read the paper looking out over the harbour like Bramble - but all of that is their job (sorry those that I missed, my attention span these days...).

Meanwhile, I'll keep on writing what I want to write. Some folk like it, so cudos to them, having the same taste as me (the one percenters, us - as I say, who wants to be like all the rest of you lot? I couldn't think of anything worse).

And readers, if they don't like it, can either move on quietly or piss off noisily - "delete" is my friend.

Or write their own stuff, if they reckon they can do better...

ChloeTzang said:

My personal policy is to take people at face value and just accept they are who they say they are. Why worry about it. You are who you want to be. I'm not 100% Chinese but that's more or less how I portray myself online. Who cares? I just accept Pilot is Pilot and you are you and Hypoxia likes to cuddle bears whereas I prefer them as rugs.

Anyhow, why dive off into personalities, we all have our quirks. Pilots not the only snarky one around here. God knows I've had my moments. (Blushes). There's few enough of us here and I hate to be the voice of reason. It's so unaccustomed. I blame it on the coffee. I haven't had any for hours.

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I'm not interested in any personal attacks on Pilot, or anyone else here. I just wish he didn't feel compelled to be nasty to new authors when they come here to ask questions or seek advice.

I write what I like. I do it for me. If other people like it and it affects them in a positive way then all the better. If they don't like it, or don't understand it, then that's no skin off my nose. Yeah, I'd prefer it was liked. But I'm not gonna spend three nights crying in bed if they don't.

Some people here don't like Debbie, mostly because they feel understanding her is beneath them. They just make me laugh and want to write more of her. Agnes of God and Safety net are my two worst scoring stories here and yet I feel they are some of my best work simply because they are FAR from the norm. I suppose it does bother me to a degree that people didn't get them but that's their problem, not mine. I don't write cookie cutter stroke material. I want readers to leave with something to think about besides the protein stains on the front of their undies.

It is nice to be recognized by people with credentials and annoying to be lambasted by someone who wants you to believe they are some sort of expert but won't even leave a name. How are you supposed to have ANY level of respect for their opinion?

John988 said:

What do you care about more as an author: publishing work that fits your unique vision, even if it's not accepted very well, or publishing work that's very popular, even if you had to stray from your initial design?

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I've always written stories for an imaginary audience--not for myself. I wrote one story that was intended as self therapy, but I don't know of other reasons why I'd write something for myself. Some of what I published on Lit was written for my imaginary audience before I came here and was posted without changes. Some of it was published in it's original concept, but with adjustments.

I've changed my writing for the Lit audience. That doesn't mean writing stories I wouldn't otherwise write. It mostly means more sex and, in ways I can't explain briefly, less respect for my characters.

NotWise said:

I've changed my writing for the Lit audience. That doesn't mean writing stories I wouldn't otherwise write. It mostly means more sex and, in ways I can't explain briefly, less respect for my characters.

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Less respect as in less investment in them as characters, or the "can't explain briefly" thing?

I can't ever imagine not investing in any of my characters - if I don't believe in them, they don't get written, and then there's no story.

Interesting, the number here who seem to be saying, yes, I'm changing what I do because of my audience... when the audience merit is set of numbers and a 1:1000 comment. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

electricblue66 said:

Less respect as in less investment in them as characters, or the "can't explain briefly" thing?

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Probably "can't explain briefly." I'm invested in the characters, but without putting things on Lit I probably would never have written (in Unlikely Angels) any kind of detail about Eudora's affair with her son. To me Eudora deserved her privacy and it was only necessary for the reader to know that it happened. I modified the scene for Lit so that it was more explicit.

electricblue66 said:

Interesting, the number here who seem to be saying, yes, I'm changing what I do because of my audience... when the audience merit is set of numbers and a 1:1000 comment. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

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Unless you're writing in certain categories, the majority of Lit readers seem to want a lot of explicit sex. That seems like a no-brainer. I have a story that I like a lot ("The Third Ring") that I sent to Sci Fi & Fantasy only after I posted a question here and was told that the category doesn't really require a lot of explicit sex. It floated well in the category, but once it slipped off the category hub it was down voted by the general Lit readers.

I write to please myself, but in many ways, Lit both gives me license and challenges me to indulge my raunchiness, and to mold it into a shapely story form. Knowing there's an audience for the story gives me a concrete goal and deadline, but I do this stuff for fun, and where would the fun be if I had to write to please someone else?