Sir_Winston54
Assume the position!
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2004
- Posts
- 14,027
Only when he's awake, or writing.Sometimes Joe Klein is a freaking dick.
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Only when he's awake, or writing.Sometimes Joe Klein is a freaking dick.
Summer colds are not cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LP3Zs_V_BQOK, I seriously debated talking about this here, because I know how this topic can go, but I had one of the most awkward and uncomfortable dinners last night and I need to vent about it.
The dinner was hosted by our current boss and his girlfriend. Nice people, friendly, etc. I'd call him borderline sociopath and she has some social glitchery as well, but L and me are used to chatting with a host of different personality types, so that's fine. What made the evening so squirm-worthy was that boss and girlfriend are both Christian. And I don't mean "religious", I mean CHRISTIAN!
I lost track of the number of times we had to gently, politely steer the conversation away from god, Jesus, and related yay-Christianity stuff. What a position to put your employees in. WTF? It felt no different than fending off sexual advances all night. If the power structure had been different and if we didn't know this was a short time commitment, and if L didn't love what he's doing so much, we would have made our atheism very clear. As it was, we bit our lips and had a good head shake on the way home.
Now, you could say this was just bad manners, and it was, but it's far from the first time I've found myself in that kind of situation. Why? Why do people feel it's OK to do this? And people wonder why some atheists become militant and hostile. Yeesh.
If you think *they* were bad, let me introduce you to my brother, whose "religion" is a certain multi-level marketing (MLM) organization. After more than 20 years in this organization, his income from it would qualify as slightly below subsistence level, yet I was forced to tell him - and follow through - that if he again brought up the idea of my joining the organization at *any* time, I would get up and walk out, no matter where we were, or who we were with. After the fourth or fifth time I walked out, I just quit accepting invitations to anything from him. I haven't seen him in 11 years. (We do, however, correspond occasionally by e-mail, and I just ignore his proselytizing in his sig lines.)Why do people feel it's OK to do this? And people wonder why some atheists become militant and hostile. Yeesh.
OK, I seriously debated talking about this here, because I know how this topic can go, but I had one of the most awkward and uncomfortable dinners last night and I need to vent about it.
The dinner was hosted by our current boss and his girlfriend. Nice people, friendly, etc. I'd call him borderline sociopath and she has some social glitchery as well, but L and me are used to chatting with a host of different personality types, so that's fine. What made the evening so squirm-worthy was that boss and girlfriend are both Christian. And I don't mean "religious", I mean CHRISTIAN!
I lost track of the number of times we had to gently, politely steer the conversation away from god, Jesus, and related yay-Christianity stuff. What a position to put your employees in. WTF? It felt no different than fending off sexual advances all night. If the power structure had been different and if we didn't know this was a short time commitment, and if L didn't love what he's doing so much, we would have made our atheism very clear. As it was, we bit our lips and had a good head shake on the way home.
Now, you could say this was just bad manners, and it was, but it's far from the first time I've found myself in that kind of situation. Why? Why do people feel it's OK to do this? And people wonder why some atheists become militant and hostile. Yeesh.
If you think *they* were bad, let me introduce you to my brother, whose "religion" is a certain multi-level marketing (MLM) organization.
However, just to be fair, I've also dealt with people of many religions (or non-religions) who are like this. For instance, I've never belonged to an online Christian group that doesn't have to routinely delete atheists and satanists who join under false pretenses and then proceed to be completely obnoxious about it.
I know there are obnoxious atheists out there, and I know you’re not one of those in-your-face religious folks , Gracie. SW, your brother sounds like a doofus and I don’t blame you for ditching him. The difference here, and the reason I ranted was the power structure of this particular situation.
This was not a conversation between equals. This person is our employer. Putting employees in that kind of position is beyond annoying, it’s an abuse of power. The thing is, I don’t think he and his girlfriend saw it that way at all because, for them, belief is the default setting. We’re the “weird” ones. To my mind, this was no different than if they had spent the evening inappropriately touching us. Seriously. In an online forum, or with family and friends, it may be annoying to have to put up with someone’s beliefs, but at least you have the option of responding honestly without any impact on your financial situation.
I’ve tolerated religion as the societal default setting for my entire life, but this incident crossed the line. And because of the nature of this job, we can't just quit. We've made a huge commitment to be here, including sub-letting our suite. Needless to say, we won't be accepting anymore dinner invites.
I know there are obnoxious atheists out there, and I know you’re not one of those in-your-face religious folks , Gracie. SW, your brother sounds like a doofus and I don’t blame you for ditching him. The difference here, and the reason I ranted was the power structure of this particular situation.
This was not a conversation between equals. This person is our employer. Putting employees in that kind of position is beyond annoying, it’s an abuse of power. The thing is, I don’t think he and his girlfriend saw it that way at all because, for them, belief is the default setting. We’re the “weird” ones. To my mind, this was no different than if they had spent the evening inappropriately touching us. Seriously. In an online forum, or with family and friends, it may be annoying to have to put up with someone’s beliefs, but at least you have the option of responding honestly without any impact on your financial situation.
I’ve tolerated religion as the societal default setting for my entire life, but this incident crossed the line. And because of the nature of this job, we can't just quit. We've made a huge commitment to be here, including sub-letting our suite. Needless to say, we won't be accepting anymore dinner invites.
Now, you could say this was just bad manners, and it was, but it's far from the first time I've found myself in that kind of situation. Why? Why do people feel it's OK to do this? And people wonder why some atheists become militant and hostile. Yeesh.
I finally cut him loose, even though I haven't recovered financially since. I just couldn't stand it anymore. It was vile and disgusting.
Oh, I agree. Your hubby's boss is an ass and you honestly have every reason in the world to be annoyed about it. Mine was just a side note, not necessarily pertinent to your particular situation.
I hate situations like that even when I have a way out, but it was horrible because I just had to sit there and listen. The horror must have shown on my face though, because after the whole course was over, the teacher did apologize to me that she and the other student had gotten carried away at times.
People are still using Pascal's wager?
If there IS a God and it's satisfied with such a pathetic rationale for belief, I don't want into its heaven anyway.
There was one especially unsettling moment, when they started to discuss how anyone can be so stupid as to not believe in God, you know, just in case. "You'd think they'd believe in God, because why would anyone want to go to hell and rott there forever and ever, but no, I guess some people are just that stupid. If you're not sure, it's the safe bet to believe in God, but not everybody seems smart enough to come to that conclusion."
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People are still using Pascal's wager?
If there IS a God and it's satisfied with such a pathetic rationale for belief, I don't want into its heaven anyway.
What's the alternative though?
The most invidious notion of all is the idea that belief itself is a choice.
What's the alternative though?
The most invidious notion of all is the idea that belief itself is a choice.
's like to be "on the other side" is important. If more religious folks understood this, I wouldn't have people knocking on my door, uninvited, to try and talk me into believing, lol.
Belief "just in case" is not sensiere belief and wouldn't count anyway.