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Wtf Is It With The Interest In Incest?

Can't speak for any other author here, but I wrote mine for the challenge. It's a very difficult thing to do believably, it's even more difficult to do in a way that doesn't turn people off. "Game of Thrones" certainly helped popularize the taboo, no doubt about that, but humans have been writing about bangin' kin either accidentally or on purpose for thousands of years and in most places it's still forbidden.

Why do I like it? Like anything else on the site here, when it's done right it's hot as hell. I have no real-life experiences, not interested in it personally, but when something pushes so many buttons for so many people as well as that topic does, it would be silly for me as a writer to ignore it. :)
 
ChloeTzang said:
And it's interesting how over time what's seen as forbidden is becoming less and less. Personally I think the next one to fall will be underage, you're already seeing more and more of a push to legitimize pedophilia. As for incest, there's different cultural barriers there. Look at somewhere like Pakistan where marriage to cousins is a norm rather than a slightly weird exception.

There must be a good quote about the fall of Rome that applies here.
Click to expand...

I don't really see a push to legitimize pedophilia. It's treated as a very serious crime and my sense is that the social barrier against it is about as strong as ever. There is a small segment of the population that wants it decriminalized, but it's very small, and I'm not aware of anybody in any significant numbers pushing for this, and no one in any position of responsibility is pushing for it.

A lot of things are loosening up, such as attitudes about interracial relationships and harmless kinks and fetishes, but I think we are hitting a barrier regarding behavior that involves other than consenting adults, and incest, and the barrier is likely to stay up for the foreseeable future. But we'll see. Things can change fast.
 
SimonDoom said:
I don't really see a push to legitimize pedophilia. It's treated as a very serious crime and my sense is that the social barrier against it is about as strong as ever. There is a small segment of the population that wants it decriminalized, but it's very small, and I'm not aware of anybody in any significant numbers pushing for this, and no one in any position of responsibility is pushing for it.
Click to expand...

I agree with Simon. If there's any kind of legitimization process going on, it's that we're seeing more things like "Romeo and Juliet" laws which take into account the absurdity of saying that a 15-year old having consensual sex with a 17-year old is fine, but one year later when one of them turns 18 and the other is 16, it's suddenly statutory rape and deserving of a prison sentence + registration as a sex offender for the older party despite the fact they're a dating couple. This is a far cry from legalizing pedophilia.

There's also a push towards understanding the difference between people who have the impulse vs. people who act on the impulse. One is a real crime, the other is a thought crime which is essentially harmless, just as there's a difference between an alcoholic who boozes it up and kills someone in a drunk driving incident versus an alcoholic who wishes he could go out for a beer with friends after work but restrains himself because he knows the potential consequences.

Is there any significant section of the populace or our government actively advocating the legalization of adults boffing kids, or is this the province of a few whack-jobs swapping kiddie pics on the Darknet being held up by some branch of the media as a "serious concern"?
 
Love is better than hate.

1. If you don't like incest stories don't read them.

2. If you don't like incest threads don't read them.

3. If you don't like incest, just stop talking about it, apply the ignore principle.
 
loquere said:
1. If you don't like incest stories don't read them.

2. If you don't like incest threads don't read them.

3. If you don't like incest, just stop talking about it, apply the ignore principle.
Click to expand...
4. If you don't like incest, stop thinking about your family that way.
 
RubenR said:
I like stories where I can identify myself with the (main) characters. As such, the reason why I dislike the idea of Incest stories could be the fear that I might identify myself with those characters too.

Vice versa, if I'm appalled by the main characters, then it is very unlikely that I do like the story.
Click to expand...

I like writing about characters who are awful people, I find it more interesting.

Like Allison my lead character in 'The PTA Queen Bee & the Teen Rebel', this 42-year-old alpha bitch bullies less assertive parents on the PTA of which she is president, has no qualms about defrauding clients in her job as a real estate broker and lusts after younger women, having no concerns about cheating on her husband with an 18-year-old girl (although the husband himself is unfaithful too).

Bridget, the titular character from my story 'Bridget the Bossy Bridezilla' is also an awful person, a spoiled rotten Daddy's girl who treats her fiancé like crap and cheats on him with his loser younger brother out of pure spite when he calls her out on some of her bullshit.

However, if you flip the genders in these stories I couldn't see men acting like this being well received.
 
R. Richard said:
Incest is where the sales are.
Click to expand...

Oh, really? There are distributors who sell incest? I think that the popularity of incest on sites like this stems from so few marketplace distributors offering incest at all.

I must say that I'm getting tired of all the recent yammering about it on the forum, though. If you (the generic "you") don't want to read it, you don't have to. (I don't.) I don't need to hear about your personal preferences ad nauseam.
 
sr71plt said:
I must say that I'm getting tired of all the recent yammering about it on the forum, though. If you (the generic "you") don't want to read it, you don't have to. (I don't.) I don't need to hear about your personal preferences ad nauseam.
Click to expand...

You can have an interesting perspective on things and there are areas I'd say you have expertise.
But like when you call out someone for complaining about a story genre they don't like - the best advice is not to read what you're not interested in.
The title of the thread says it's about incest so exercise some restraint and don't click on the thread. There problem solved. No need to hear anyone yammering about incest or whatever else doesn't interest you. Sheesh
 
This forum just goes around and around on the same topics--most of which are telling others what to write. It's mostly based on petty irritations. If others are going to air their petty irritations again and again and again, I'll do it occasionally myself. At least I'm also regularly giving product to the Web site.
 
sr71plt said:
This forum just goes around and around on the same topics--most of which are telling others what to write. It's mostly based on petty irritations. If others are going to air their petty irritations again and again and again, I'll do it occasionally myself. At least I'm also regularly giving product to the Web site.
Click to expand...

Well, there are those like me for who it's all relatively new and therefore interesting so as you get new people in the forum I guess the same old things will come up. For me it's all new and interesting....
 
sr71plt said:
This forum just goes around and around on the same topics--most of which are telling others what to write. It's mostly based on petty irritations. If others are going to air their petty irritations again and again and again, I'll do it occasionally myself. At least I'm also regularly giving product to the Web site.
Click to expand...

I think that's part of it, but not the whole enchilada. People also are genuinely interested in what motivates people to like this or that category of erotica. I ask that question of my own interests, and I'm not always sure what the answer is. So I sure as heck don't know what drives others, but it's interesting to ask. I suspect I'm not the only one interested in those questions, and people will keep starting these threads because the questions never fully get answered but remain interesting.

But yes, there's disapproval, too, and it surprises me on an erotic story website. It's odd to me that someone who gets off on non-consent (i.e., rape) gets easily squicked by consensual incest, or suggests that there's something wrong with people who like that sort of thing.

I assume that most people, including good people, have deep, dark corners inside them, and that erotica appeals to those deep, dark corners. So I see no basis for judging someone on the basis of what type of kinky stories he or she likes to read.
 
SimonDoom said:
I think that's part of it, but not the whole enchilada. People also are genuinely interested in what motivates people to like this or that category of erotica. I ask that question of my own interests, and I'm not always sure what the answer is. So I sure as heck don't know what drives others, but it's interesting to ask. I suspect I'm not the only one interested in those questions, and people will keep starting these threads because the questions never fully get answered but remain interesting.

But yes, there's disapproval, too, and it surprises me on an erotic story website. It's odd to me that someone who gets off on non-consent (i.e., rape) gets easily squicked by consensual incest, or suggests that there's something wrong with people who like that sort of thing.

I assume that most people, including good people, have deep, dark corners inside them, and that erotica appeals to those deep, dark corners. So I see no basis for judging someone on the basis of what type of kinky stories he or she likes to read.
Click to expand...

horses for courses, as we'd say in Blighty.
 
SimonDoom said:
What puzzles me about Retrofan's response -- and yours -- is the seeming inability to imagine or understand that others get turned on by things you don't. You say that "incest is just repulsive." No, it's not. Nothing just "is" anything -- I would think a writer of erotic stories -- especially a skilled one like you -- would understand that. You write stories with dominance and non-consent themes. It seems to me that's a more intrinsically "repulsive" topic than that of consensual adult incest, but I wouldn't try to argue that to someone that enjoys those stories. I do not believe that anything is intrinsically anything. That, to me, is a vital element of the appeal of erotica.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll take the bait.

I don't consider myself a "skilled writer of erotica". I consider myself a fairly talented amateur writer who happens to occasionally write erotica and post it. It's not even a small fraction of my creative output. It's not my main topic of interest. Most erotica I see either bores or horrifies me; I'm very narrowband in what I like and hence what erotica I'll write (or read, rarely). There is nothing in me of the "we must embrace all and accept all" culture, when it comes to any aspect of human nature, and especially not sexuality.

I think incest is horrid. No surprise. It is horrid - I don't know of a single case of it turning out positively for anyone; I know of a handful of cases where it turned out extremely badly. I've read on the topic and the overwhelming consensus of professionals is that it's innately destructive to children, and in real life it's always children. Incest is lazy pedophilia - you're a predator who can't even be bothered to go out and find helpless children elsewhere, you have to pick the ones closest to hand and least likely to protest. Procreatively, it's a genetic mess, which is one reason virtually every culture says no to it. The fictional kind of incest people do here - where everyone is over 18 and no one gets hurt, a species unknown in real life - bores me to tears. It's got nothing to do with the real world and I like stories that explore what makes most of us tick, here in the real world.

There are other things that are horrid. Murder comes to mind. Every time someone pushes the mantras - and they are mantras - of "everything is acceptable to someone!" I mentally form the list of all the things we collectively know are never acceptable - murdering, oppressing people for personal gain, harming the unwilling for personal gratification. There are people who get off on all those things. They are monsters and there is nothing tolerable about their desires. We lock them up when possible so the rest of us can live in a saner world.

I have one actual noncon story - it's in Mind Control. The main character gets the death he richly deserves in the end. My actual stories in non-con are reluctance stories. The male characters generally turn out to have hearts of gold, even if it takes a good few chapters to find it and no one is more surprised than they are. Some of them break social norms, but it's by not giving a fuck about social norms, not because they have some third-grade need to deliberately break rules. I have no use for actual noncon, aka rape. I've known rape victims and I've seen some of the darker aftermath of it. When I say that a first offence of violent rape should carry a mandatory 10 year+ sentence and a second offense should carry the death sentence, I'm being entirely serious. Once you see the consequences it's hard to want any other approach.

So never play the "you write erotica, you should be good with it all" card on anyone, least of all me. Being creative isn't a licence for accepting any amoral concept some basement-dwelling creep shoves onto lit.
 
sr71plt said:
If you (the generic "you") don't want to read it, you don't have to. (I don't.)
Click to expand...

I notice you disparage the category and people's interest and opinions on it in every single thread I've seen on the subject. For someone tired of it you like to contribute.

More importantly for someone who doesn't like incest you wrote this one just a few months back

https://www.literotica.com/s/ruined-pie

I counted 17 total on your long list of work.

Seems to me you fall under thou doth protest too loudly because if you really loathed the category and topic readership etc you wouldn't be writing stories about it.
 
ChloeTzang said:
Buzzzzzzz......lol. I was just surprised at the amount of graphic artwork out there on the subject. Amazing what you find when you start looking. And as for the eggs.....those egg inserting toys just blew me away....
Click to expand...

I think the large amounts of tentacle and ovipositor porn have a lot to do with the fact that, for the time being at least, it gives artists something different to draw. Also, it's relatively obvious what's going on, so you don't need supporting text. A lot of porn illustration is just same-old-same-old without a narrative (and even then). I also think it combines 'extreme' with 'safe' because it's impossible. So far...

Incest porn, on the other hand, needs to be explained, or it's just people fucking.
 
KindofHere said:
So, you don't write about rapist, we'll call them 'Coercion Artist' with hearts of gold, so it's okay in the end. Gotcha.

This kind of argument is like the felons in the prison system. They are there for breaking the law, but rapists are at the bottom of the barrel, because everyone else needs to feel good about themselves somehow. Hands has to describe how much he dislikes taboo because he needs to deflect form his non-con/reluctance/rapey self.

On a side not, if someone were to write an incest story where the initiator got what they deserved in the end, it would be okay?

My own view: real life stuff like what we're discussing is terrible, but people come here to visit a fantasy land, if I wanted real life, I'd read the news and live in a heightened state of anger & depression.
Click to expand...

Perfect example. Honor among thieves, Criminals who need to find a lower form of criminal to target to feel better about their own crimes and selves. In this case a non consent writer who writes about and glorifies crimes in the exact way they are portrayed in reality is condemning fantasy stories which are nothing like real life incest.

I've read a couple of his stories and if he thinks they are reluctance and not rape he needs to go back and look at the definition of the word.

In the end everything here is fantasy and I don't know why people need to come out and try to morally condemn one kink while enjoying another....wait, you just gave the example why. Maybe the kinksters here condemn the non consent and incest categories to feel good because most non porn fans think all smut is sick so they need find topics they deem sicker than theirs.
 
ChloeTzang said:
And it's interesting how over time what's seen as forbidden is becoming less and less. Personally I think the next one to fall will be underage, you're already seeing more and more of a push to legitimize pedophilia. As for incest, there's different cultural barriers there. Look at somewhere like Pakistan where marriage to cousins is a norm rather than a slightly weird exception.

There must be a good quote about the fall of Rome that applies here.
Click to expand...

I think that depends on how you define 'fall' and 'underage.' 18 is a rather recent 'magic number,' and is still not universally supported in the 'developed world.' There are a lot of motivations that have nothing to do with sex that drive legal ages of 'adulthood.' It would surprise me if the US federal definition of child pornography changed its age limit any time soon, because it doesn't correspond to the diverse state statutes on the age of consent, and changing it would open up a huge can of worms regarding its arbitrary nature.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
Ok, I'll take the bait.

I don't consider myself a "skilled writer of erotica". I consider myself a fairly talented amateur writer who happens to occasionally write erotica and post it. It's not even a small fraction of my creative output. It's not my main topic of interest. Most erotica I see either bores or horrifies me; I'm very narrowband in what I like and hence what erotica I'll write (or read, rarely). There is nothing in me of the "we must embrace all and accept all" culture, when it comes to any aspect of human nature, and especially not sexuality.

I think incest is horrid. No surprise. It is horrid - I don't know of a single case of it turning out positively for anyone; I know of a handful of cases where it turned out extremely badly. I've read on the topic and the overwhelming consensus of professionals is that it's innately destructive to children, and in real life it's always children. Incest is lazy pedophilia - you're a predator who can't even be bothered to go out and find helpless children elsewhere, you have to pick the ones closest to hand and least likely to protest. Procreatively, it's a genetic mess, which is one reason virtually every culture says no to it. The fictional kind of incest people do here - where everyone is over 18 and no one gets hurt, a species unknown in real life - bores me to tears. It's got nothing to do with the real world and I like stories that explore what makes most of us tick, here in the real world.

There are other things that are horrid. Murder comes to mind. Every time someone pushes the mantras - and they are mantras - of "everything is acceptable to someone!" I mentally form the list of all the things we collectively know are never acceptable - murdering, oppressing people for personal gain, harming the unwilling for personal gratification. There are people who get off on all those things. They are monsters and there is nothing tolerable about their desires. We lock them up when possible so the rest of us can live in a saner world.

I have one actual noncon story - it's in Mind Control. The main character gets the death he richly deserves in the end. My actual stories in non-con are reluctance stories. The male characters generally turn out to have hearts of gold, even if it takes a good few chapters to find it and no one is more surprised than they are. Some of them break social norms, but it's by not giving a fuck about social norms, not because they have some third-grade need to deliberately break rules. I have no use for actual noncon, aka rape. I've known rape victims and I've seen some of the darker aftermath of it. When I say that a first offence of violent rape should carry a mandatory 10 year+ sentence and a second offense should carry the death sentence, I'm being entirely serious. Once you see the consequences it's hard to want any other approach.

So never play the "you write erotica, you should be good with it all" card on anyone, least of all me. Being creative isn't a licence for accepting any amoral concept some basement-dwelling creep shoves onto lit.
Click to expand...

This is very well said -- you do have a way with words -- but it's morally incoherent. There is no difference between your fascination with non-con, domination, men scheming to coerce and cajole and fool women into giving them what they want, whatever you want to call it-stories, and an adult male incest reader's fascination with the fictional mothers that inhabit incest stories here on Literotica.

Consider your Toymaker series. You're right that the protagonist/narrator gets his just desserts. But be honest, that's not where the appeal of the story lies. The appeal for the reader is getting inside the head of the protagonist and wondering what it would be like to control other people for the purpose of selfish erotic satisfaction if you could get away with it. There's something delicious about thinking about that. Way down deep, most of us ask this question, in one way or another: what if I could do whatever the hell I wanted to do and get away with it? That's the erotic appeal of your Toymaker series, and as a writer, deep down, you know this. And in that sense, you're no different from the guy who wonders what it would be like to get away with fucking his mother.

You're free to dislike stories on that subject, or others, of course. But you have no moral standing -- and no knowledge of the people you judge -- that gives you the basis for judging people who like those stories, let alone calling them "basement-dwelling creeps". They're no creepier than you are.

You keep bringing up real incest. You're not the only one. But it's a non sequitur. It has nothing to do with the world of incest on this site. Obviously, the incest that we all know happens in the real world -- preying on children -- has nothing to do with the fascination adult men have for reading stories about getting it on with mom. There's no connection at all. To keep bringing it up is to repeat the irrelevant.

But even if we were talking about preying on children, there are great novels on that subject, too. Nabokov's Lolita. Nabokov, like him or hate him, was not a bottom-dwelling creep. The people who enjoy the book are not bottom-dwelling creeps. To suggest otherwise is to be willfully obtuse.

The point being: knowing what kinds of kinky stories people like to write or read here tells you very little about those people, and certainly not enough to judge them. Hate the stories, but be respectful of the people who read them and write them.
 
Calista85 said:
I notice you disparage the category and people's interest and opinions on it in every single thread I've seen on the subject.
Click to expand...

You notice wrong. Since I don't accept your premise, I didn't bother to read the rest of your post.

I do wonder, though, why all of your posts match Lovecraft68's views. :rolleyes::D
 
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