How to make amends?

I am scared to go now, for fear I'll run into HH and he will punish me for all the bad I've done in my life.
 
Still going...

I have a headache from trying to catch up in this thread. I saw it soon after originally posted by TL, and got hooked after HH stepped into it. Then my real life demanded my attention so I haven't had time to follow but then it does seem to be the sos/diff day!
It is funny how people feel their opinion is the only one to have, and that what they have to say is the right thing no matter what. It is with age 'I have learned I still have much to learn and that my biggest mistakes involve judgement and a stubborn way of thinking I am the one who knows best. After all each one of us has a biased set way of thinking towards all situations developed from our own past which is all different anyways. I don't see a point in trying to conform or shove ideas and thoughts down other people's throats when clearly they don't and never will see things the same way. IN MY OPINION I don't feel HH is after his friend's wife, because as he said, there are easier ways of going about doing that. Besides, I'm not sure some females would feel the actions of HH would even be an attractive thing. I feel it was a combination of things that brought HH to even want to do this to TL. I think one of the things is this, while we all are capable of making mistakes in life, and yes more than once at times...it truly takes someone quite malicious to do things deliberately and without remorse to people...repetitively. And not to just one but many, as I understand it. It takes a specific type of personality to take on feeding one their own medicine but that could be karma coming around for TL. I can relate especially when it is someone close that has been affected. :(
 
Sistinas74 said:
IN MY OPINION I don't feel HH is after his friend's wife, because as he said, there are easier ways of going about doing that.

From memory HH has openly admitted he'd join them if the offer was there, so I'm sure on SOME level there is a physical attraction and desire for either the husband or the wife, or both. That's fine we all have desires that we will ever act on. I agree though, I don't think HH is actively seeking to fulfill anything like that.

Right on, both of you.

Hey, if I were to be invited to a threesome, I would jump at that. It would be an adventure, and besides that, yes -- my friend's wife is hot. :D

But trying to fuck around with her...no. After seeing all they went through to get past the cheating issues and back on solid ground, the mere thought of messing with that is just wrong. Their relationship is very hard-won and deserves respect.
 
Sistinas74 & Rainshine~ you guys are entitle to your opinion. I simply don't believe in altruism. What HH is asking us to believe is that he has done all of this simply out of the goodness of his heart. He has made himself look like the biggest tool ever created, just because. Sorry, maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't buy it. Here's what I know.

People don't do things like this without having an agenda. There is a reason he has felt the need to rise up and play "hero" and in the process subvert his best friend/husband in best friend's wife's eyes. He has effectively made his best friend look weak. (Think about it, apparently his best friend couldn't get rid of TL, but TA-DAH HH did. *sigh* hero) Why would he do that?

Either his best friend asked him to -- wait he said best friend didn't, so....he did this on his own. why? well let's see... hmmm..

Also I have never in all my 20+ years of watching relationships and having one ever known a guy to go through this much effort, to be this indignant on behalf of someone he didn't want, at least on some level.
Added to that is the fact that she came running to him. Honestly ladies... when your guy does something wrong, do you go running to his friend or yours? Again in all my years, every time a woman goes running to his friends, there's something afoot. Maybe not consciously...oh but open that door just a little...

So yeah sorry. I will predict at some point wife and best friend are not going to make it. I wouldn't be surprised it at the next fight she comes crying to him again and while crying on his shoulder...
I'm sorry he is simply too involved in their marriage, their sex life, and he feels the need to be her hero just a little too much.

But hey as you say This is just my opinion.

I'll even be more honest. I respect someone who can respect someone's marriage. It's one of the things that I look for in my conversations with people. And at one point one of his statements had me almost posting a private message thinking this is someone I could chat with.

But I have never had a friend as involved in my marriage the way HH is involved in his supposed best friend's marriage. And ultimately I think he will prove toxic to their marriage.
 
People don't do things like this without having an agenda.

Just to make it clear -- again -- you don't know the whole story. You don't know what my friend has done in this situation, and most importantly, you do not know the reasons I stepped up to handle this.

It's something I am happy to discuss privately, as many on this thread can already attest. You might see me differently if you took the initiative to send that PM. But you did not, which makes me think that maybe you enjoy clinging to the stance that I'm just a flat-out terrible person.

If feeling superior matters that much to you, by all means, continue the snark and insults. But if you really are as curious as you claim you are, well...you know how to PM me, don't you? :)
 
I stepped up to handle this.

No offense. I don't need to know that whole story.That sentence tells me so much. Exactly you stepped in. You stepped in to do what he couldn't. You got hte job done. And in the process completely subverted and undermined your supposed best friend.

This is not a matter of feeling superior. It's looking at you and realizing that you are so young, that your friends are obviously young (and I would guess have not been married long) that you have no idea the damage you have done. And I'm not talking about to TL. I'm talking about to your friend's marriage.

You have set up a dynamic by which your BF appears weak and unable to handle a situation that he created. And in comparison you appear strong and effective, take charge, protective (valiant in some perhaps screwed up perspective) Do you really think that is not going to affect their marriage? Do you really think long term that is not going to affect how his wife sees him?

With your actions you have nicked the armor of their marriage. And ultimately it doesn't matter why you did it. All that matters is that you did. Your best friend has so much more now to overcome, and some of that is due to your actions.

And honestly we could trade stories about horrible things others have done to ones we care about. Nothing will change the fact you have damaged their marriage. Perhaps you did so with good intentions (I am not an optimistic so I would disagree) but you know what they say about good intentions... the road to hell is paved with them
 
No offense. I don't need to know that whole story.That sentence tells me so much. Exactly you stepped in. You stepped in to do what he couldn't. You got hte job done. And in the process completely subverted and undermined your supposed best friend.

This is not a matter of feeling superior. It's looking at you and realizing that you are so young, that your friends are obviously young (and I would guess have not been married long) that you have no idea the damage you have done. And I'm not talking about to TL. I'm talking about to your friend's marriage.

You have set up a dynamic by which your BF appears weak and unable to handle a situation that he created. And in comparison you appear strong and effective, take charge, protective (valiant in some perhaps screwed up perspective) Do you really think that is not going to affect their marriage? Do you really think long term that is not going to affect how his wife sees him?

With your actions you have nicked the armor of their marriage. And ultimately it doesn't matter why you did it. All that matters is that you did. Your best friend has so much more now to overcome, and some of that is due to your actions.

And honestly we could trade stories about horrible things others have done to ones we care about. Nothing will change the fact you have damaged their marriage. Perhaps you did so with good intentions (I am not an optimistic so I would disagree) but you know what they say about good intentions... the road to hell is paved with them

What a basket of assumptions you have! I have to admit that I was very tempted to cave in to throwing back insults and assumptions at you, but rather than sink to that level, I'm just going to say: I'm sorry to hear that you don't have enough of an open mind to hear the rest of the story. :(

If you ever do change your mind, you know how to send a PM. Until then, I will certainly read your posts on this thread -- no matter how misguided and loaded with assumptions they might be -- but I won't respond to you again.

Take care. :rose:
 
Added to that is the fact that she came running to him. Honestly ladies... when your guy does something wrong, do you go running to his friend or yours? Again in all my years, every time a woman goes running to his friends, there's something afoot. Maybe not consciously...oh but open that door just a little...

Well, let me raise my hand and stand up as someone who did turn to the best friend when my marriage fell apart. For no other reason than to try to figure out what was going on in my ex's head. Clearly I didn't have the answers, my freinds didn't have the answers, so I figured I'd try my luck with his best fried. Unfortuantely, even he could offer no insight into the douchie mind of my ex. Although he did offer support, an ear to listen and yes, a shoulder to cry on. Nothing untoward ever happened; nor was I hoping that it would. That would just be weird. Frankly, I would question my character as well as his if anything did happen.

My ex and the best friend no longer speak, for various reasons. The friend and I email occassionally and send Christmas cards, but that's it. I will always be grateful to him, for helping me though a very difficult time. He stepped up to the plate many times when he didn't need to.
 
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Well, let me raise my hand and stand up as someone who did turn to the best friend when my marriage fell apart. For no other reason than to try to figure out what was going on in my ex's head. Clearly I didn't have the answers, my freinds didn't have the answers, so I figured I'd try my luck with his best fried. Unfortuantely, even he could offer no insight into the douchie mind of my ex. Although he did offer support, an ear to listen and yes, a shoulder to cry on. Nothing untoward ever happened; nor was I hoping that it would. That would just be weird. Frankly, I would question my character as well as his if anything did happen.

My ex and the best friend no longer speak, for various reasons. The friend and I email occassionally and send Christmas cards, but that's it. I will always be grateful to him, for helping me though a very difficult time. He stepped up to the plate many times when he didn't need to.

Then you are the minority and I guess the example that proves the rule. But can I ask this? And this is just to drill down on exactly what I was saying. When you spoke to the ex's best friend was this while you were trying to work things out? Or after it was done with?
I would say it is one thing to seek answers about a spouse who has left and will not talk. Quite another to turn to his best friend for comfort while said spouse is trying to work it out with you. Would you agree with that or not?

Every example I have seen of the latter (and trust me I have seen far too many) has ended in the maligned spouse seeking info and comfort from the best friend of the idiot. (lol trying to keep terminology straight and even gender free- because honestly it works both ways). At some point a bond develops between the maligned spouse and idiot's bf. OR in the course of crying on the shoulder something happens. It's not necessarily planned (sometimes) but it happens and it happens way too often.
 
What a basket of assumptions you have! I have to admit that I was very tempted to cave in to throwing back insults and assumptions at you, but rather than sink to that level, I'm just going to say: I'm sorry to hear that you don't have enough of an open mind to hear the rest of the story. :(

If you ever do change your mind, you know how to send a PM. Until then, I will certainly read your posts on this thread -- no matter how misguided and loaded with assumptions they might be -- but I won't respond to you again.

Take care. :rose:

Lol. Ah yes what a basket of assumptions I have. And what a tendency you have for acting like a teenager. You want so badly to mitigate your actions with the actions of others. Sadly when faced with the consequences of your own actions you choose to sulk and accuse me of 'not wanting to hear the rest of the story'.

How does hearing the rest of the story change your actions? Will it suddenly mean that you didn't do all these things? That you didn't place yourself directly in their marriage? That you didn't subvert your best friend? You didn't take action when he couldn't? Those things will change with your telling me "the rest of the story"?

Here is a fact. It is not your marriage and through your own ineptness you have mucked around in something that even you cannot begin to understand the possible ramifications. Just give it time. This is a tiny fissure in the foundation of their marriage, but over time it may well prove to be a tremendous crack. And you can't lay that on TL alone, you will have played a part in it as well.
 
Then you are the minority and I guess the example that proves the rule. But can I ask this? And this is just to drill down on exactly what I was saying. When you spoke to the ex's best friend was this while you were trying to work things out? Or after it was done with?

Fair question. During the time we were actively in counselling, no I did not turn to the friend, because I had the counseller to turn to. When the ex stopped counselling and literally walked out the door not to be seen or heard from for 2 weeks, yes, that is when I turned to the friend. However, the ex came back, and we tried to work things out for a while and during that time, I did continue to converse with the friend.

I would not say that my filing for divorce had anything to do with what the friend did or did not say as I don't think he was trying undermine my marriage. I genuinely feel he was trying to help. I do feel, though, that during that time, the friend was more concerned about me and my feelings than those of my ex. My decision was based on the fact that I simply could not stand to be around somebody who clearly had no respect for me or our marriage.

My situation was slightly different than that of HH's friends, although it did involve cheating. I took matters into my own hands and confronted the whore myself.
 
Fair question. During the time we were actively in counselling, no I did not turn to the friend, because I had the counseller to turn to. When the ex stopped counselling and literally walked out the door not to be seen or heard from for 2 weeks, yes, that is when I turned to the friend. However, the ex came back, and we tried to work things out for a while and during that time, I did continue to converse with the friend.

I would not say that my filing for divorce had anything to do with what the friend did or did not say as I don't think he was trying undermine my marriage. I genuinely feel he was trying to help. I do feel, though, that during that time, the friend was more concerned about me and my feelings than those of my ex. My decision was based on the fact that I simply could not stand to be around somebody who clearly had no respect for me or our marriage.

My situation was slightly different than that of HH's friends, although it did involve cheating. I took matters into my own hands and confronted the whore myself.

Fair enough. :)

I do have to say that I chuckled at your statement of confronting the whore yourself. Can I ask something? Looking back do you find that being able to do that helped you?

One interesting thing I have found is that of my friends, the ones that were able to confront "the other" (again keeping it gender free) seem to find it easier to move on. Almost as if in the act of confrontation there is a that feeling of getting it all out and dealt with.
 
Fair enough. :)

I do have to say that I chuckled at your statement of confronting the whore yourself. Can I ask something? Looking back do you find that being able to do that helped you?

One interesting thing I have found is that of my friends, the ones that were able to confront "the other" (again keeping it gender free) seem to find it easier to move on. Almost as if in the act of confrontation there is a that feeling of getting it all out and dealt with.

Oh, it felt utterly fucking fantastic....and in general I try to avoid confrontation but it was great!! Did it help me? Eh. I don't know about that...I was pretty wrecked for a while....but I was proud of myself.
 
I can understand it being healing to confront the other women. I do not think I would have the fortitude to do that, except for verifying they had been involved.

Oh, you'd be surprised at your fortitude if properly motivated. I delivered a pretty good speech that day....of course I did have to memorize it before hand; I knew I'd never be able to just wing it. I had too much to say and didn't want to leave anything out.
 
Delightful news!

An update...

My friend and his wife had some big news to share last week...they're pregnant! Their first child will make its grand entrance in the spring.

They are sweet to watch. He carries a sonogram picture in his wallet and gladly shows it off to anybody who even mentions kids. She has that lovely glow that pregnancy brings. I've never seen them happier.

And guess who gets to be Godfather? :D

I am going to spoil that child rotten.


.....
There is new news on the ms_intrigue front, which I will share once I figure out what to do about it...but in the meantime, suffice it to say that my friends have definitely moved on from the little witch. :D
 
An update...

My friend and his wife had some big news to share last week...they're pregnant! Their first child will make its grand entrance in the spring.

They are sweet to watch. He carries a sonogram picture in his wallet and gladly shows it off to anybody who even mentions kids. She has that lovely glow that pregnancy brings. I've never seen them happier.

And guess who gets to be Godfather? :D

I am going to spoil that child rotten.


.....
There is new news on the ms_intrigue front, which I will share once I figure out what to do about it...but in the meantime, suffice it to say that my friends have definitely moved on from the little witch. :D

Just tell your friend, no trying to record the delivery, that one is really the unforgivable sin in wive's eyes, friend of mine said that jolkingly to his wife and told him if she wanted to have herself recorded blown up like Jabba the hut, screaming like a Banshee as she passed something the size of a bowling ball through something normally the size of a radiator hose, she would hire Industrial light and magic, and suggested to him if he tried he would not be attending any events like this again, nor be available for the precursor:).

I am glad they moved on, whether I think your actions were justified or not, I think you will make a damn good Godfather because you were trying to be a good friend to them and showed caring and protective instincts. God help the boy that wants to date the kid if it is a girl:)
 
Congratulations to you and your friends, HH, about the good news. :) But please don't spoil the kid rotten. The world doesn't need more rotten people, don't you agree ? :p
 
Thanks for the good wishes! :)

On the idea of taking pictures at the delivery...hmmm. My friend is prone to the occasional shitty decision (as we all know by now) and he does love his camera. It's entirely possible this idea has crossed his mind.

My first duty as Godfather shall be to help ensure that Daddy does NOT use the camera for any purposes that are not clearly and explicitly allowed by Mommy. I mean, the kid probably doesn't want his or her birth story to be about how his father got knocked out cold by a flying camera in the delivery room. :cool:
 
Thanks for the good wishes! :)

On the idea of taking pictures at the delivery...hmmm. My friend is prone to the occasional shitty decision (as we all know by now) and he does love his camera. It's entirely possible this idea has crossed his mind.

My first duty as Godfather shall be to help ensure that Daddy does NOT use the camera for any purposes that are not clearly and explicitly allowed by Mommy. I mean, the kid probably doesn't want his or her birth story to be about how his father got knocked out cold by a flying camera in the delivery room. :cool:

Hahaha. If that happens, make sure you get a picture of daddy's black eye for the baby book! :)
 
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