2004 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

Hello Survivorphiles!

Welcome to 2004 Survivor Literotica. Yep, El Muffster is the Director of this episode, produced by Manu Burnett and Laurel Tarantino (it's a franchise).

Questions and queries if you'd be so kind:

1) What did you think of the scoring system? What did you like? What did you not like?
2) What do you think of immunities? Like? Dislike? Any ideas for improvements?
3) What things did you think were fair? Unfair?
4) Any ideas for streamlining and/or making the contest easier for new persons to understand?
5) Comments or questions?

I like the way the scoring system is set up, rewarding versatility. A bonus of two points for the first story in a category and bonuses for completing ten, twenty and all of the categories sees like a good idea but they could be higher, especially the "all category bonus". There could possibly be some kind of bonus for any story rated "H" on a given day or days.

I have some misgivings about immunities but they will help me, since I don't have the capability of completing some of the categories.

I can't help thinking that some of the categories such as audio or illustrated, benefit those members who have certain types of equipment and expertise in using the equipment, rather than writing ability and versatility.

I had a hard time finding out how to set up my score sheet last year. Perhaps that could be easier.

Some possible new categories: Loving Husband as well as Loving Wife. Bondage as one category and S & M as another. These two don't have all that much in common. Domination/submission (one category). Historical Erotica, a story set in another time period, with historical references. Why have non-erotic stories and poems?

I enjoyed competing last year, even though I finishede out of the money. I look forward to competing again in 2004, and I expect to be a contender. I don't have any stories finished yet but I have many started.

KillerMuffin said:

Questions and queries if you'd be so kind:

1) What did you think of the scoring system? What did you like? What did you not like?
2) What do you think of immunities? Like? Dislike? Any ideas for improvements?
3) What things did you think were fair? Unfair?
4) Any ideas for streamlining and/or making the contest easier for new persons to understand?
5) Comments or questions?

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1) I like the current scoring system. Even though I growl at the cap on Poems, I have to admit that it's a good thing. It would be unfair to have people write 200 versions of Roses are red and win the contest over people working hard to write real stories.
2)I like the immunities, even though I seldom win any. BUT, I'd like to object to the use-before-friday rule. What if someone has technical problems? A crashed hard-drive? A shut-down internet connection? I'd like to see a modification to this rule, so that IF you have technical problems, you don't lose your immunity even if you don't claim it in time.
3) No problems here.
4) How about a very thorough FAQ thread, so that we a)don't need to have beginners ask every second week, b)don't have to have the rules on top of the score list, forcing us to scroll half a day to get to the actual score list.
5) I like the score list system. Nice and easy to manage. I like the contest - it makes me try out categories I wouldn't have touched otherwise. I like this contest as it is. I know there has been discussions about the lack of quality on some of the works, but I just can't see how we're gonna be able to have "quality checks" on them. We do our best at writing lots of good stories, and if someone sacrifices quality for quantity, then that's his/her problem. They will pay for their choice, by getting less positive feedback than those who work hard to keep a high quality on their work.

Except for points 2 and 4, I say let this bear sleep!

Flicka said:

2)I like the immunities, even though I seldom win any. BUT, I'd like to object to the use-before-friday rule. What if someone has technical problems? A crashed hard-drive? A shut-down internet connection? I'd like to see a modification to this rule, so that IF you have technical problems, you don't lose your immunity even if you don't claim it in time.

4) How about a very thorough FAQ thread, so that we a)don't need to have beginners ask every second week, b)don't have to have the rules on top of the score list, forcing us to scroll half a day to get to the actual score list.

I somewhat agree on the second point. The deadline might be too short but there shouold be a deadline, maybe the following Wednesday when the new immunities get posted. She may not be aware, but she did hit an immunity on Dec. 31 so she didn't really have to finish the last story she did; she could have used the immunity.

I think the contest should be better publicized, maybe a good FAQ thread, and maybe more. I remember I had difficulties last year and I am sure other new people have problems too.

I still believe there should be some more categories, as I mentioned in my post, and maybe more.

Well, I will be a new participant this year, so I can't say if I think the existing rules work, since they haven't applied to me yet.

I am glad there are immunities and pray that I get at least a couple since I have no talent for illustration and don't speak a second language.

I think a detailed FAQ is a good idea and if you don't want it in the scoring thread, then make it a thread to itself.

I think it would be kind of neat if each contestant could have their own tread for scores, I can never find my score sheet. Then we could search for our name, and our sheet would come up

I think that the foriegn language category should allow someone else to translate -as long as you wrote the story and you don't claim it for another category. We had a rule last time that you could use a translating program, and then we got complaints that some of the stories were unreadable. Now I don't quite think that's fair- the rules were followed. Plus I still think it punishes the honest- lit has no way of knowing how you translated your story, so it's sort of a pointless rule (IMO) We are also told that we can have someone 'edit' our translation and that is left up to our discretion. What exactly is the difference between running a story through a program and then having someone edit than just having them translate in the first place (and probably hate us less afterwards as well.)

A Faq thread is a good idea, searchable in some way would be good to.

I think it would be nice for immunities to have a full week to claim them. That way you pretty much know that if the next weeks aren't posted yet, you can still claim.

There was an alternate poetry rule discussed, which would discourage non poets from posting lots of couplets- and in my opinion give those who write only poetry a fair shot. I think that was a good rule.

I have to wonder about poems. Are there any standards in regards to length. Stories have to be a certain length, which is not a problem to me, but what about poems? A limerick or a haiku are both very short but they are complete, so they ought to qualify. That is one reason for the cap on poetry submissions.

sweetnpetite said:

...We had a rule last time that you could use a translating program, and then we got complaints that some of the stories were unreadable. Now I don't quite think that's fair- the rules were followed. ...

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I've tried and tried, but I can't understand this definition of "fair." If you KNOW a story is unreadable, what's the point of it, and why does it deserve credit? The contest is what it is, but in the end this whole site is about producing stories that people will enjoy reading. Laurel won't post gibberish in English, why should she post it in any other language? Shouldn't we have respect for our readers?

My 2 cents -

I think we should have a week to claim immunities.

I don't think we should be allowed to use a translation program for Non-English

Chicklet mentioned something about bonus points for entering contests; I think that's a good idea.

I liked everything else.

DarlingNikki said:

I've tried and tried, but I can't understand this definition of "fair." If you KNOW a story is unreadable, what's the point of it, and why does it deserve credit? The contest is what it is, but in the end this whole site is about producing stories that people will enjoy reading. Laurel won't post gibberish in English, why should she post it in any other language? Shouldn't we have respect for our readers?

My 2 cents -

I think we should have a week to claim immunities.

I don't think we should be allowed to use a translation program for Non-English

Chicklet mentioned something about bonus points for entering contests; I think that's a good idea.

I liked everything else.

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In the case of the unreadable translated story, the Lit member translated something from English into Portuguese, I think. Another Lit member who speaks Portuguese as a native language objected and said it was gibberish. The member who did the translating said it wasn't his fault because it was the fault of the program he used. That, to me, is the rub. If you translate, you should be a bi-lingual person who takes a story in English and translates it into another language, without using any computer program except a word processor. In other words, apply your mastery of the two languages. That is not what does done this time, and I think it should be required in the future.

What did Chicklet say about bonus points? I haven't read it

Boxlicker101 said:

In the case of the unreadable translated story, the Lit member translated something from English into Portuguese, I think. Another Lit member who speaks Portuguese as a native language objected and said it was gibberish. The member who did the translating said it wasn't his fault because it was the fault of the program he used. That, to me, is the rub. If you translate, you should be a bi-lingual person who takes a story in English and translates it into another language, without using any computer program except a word processor. In other words, apply your mastery of the two languages. That is not what does done this time, and I think it should be required in the future.

What did Chicklet say about bonus points? I haven't read it

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I know... and I agree, that's what I was trying to say myself.

As to the bonus points, somewhere in the 2003 discussion thread, Chicklet suggested that a story entered in a holiday contest might be worth 4 points instead of 3, or something like that, I can't remember exactly. I think something along those lines would be a good idea.

DarlingNikki said:

As to the bonus points, somewhere in the 2003 discussion thread, Chicklet suggested that a story entered in a holiday contest might be worth 4 points instead of 3, or something like that, I can't remember exactly. I think something along those lines would be a good idea.

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Hear, hear!

sweetnpetite said:

I think it would be kind of neat if each contestant could have their own tread for scores, I can never find my score sheet. Then we could search for our name, and our sheet would come up

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But with 40-50 contestants, it would instead mean that we would have to scroll up and down the forum, looking for our thread! It would be exactly the same thing, except it would now be a mess in the forum, instead of a "mess" inside the scoring thread. And since the forum should also host a FAQ thread, a rules thread, immunity threads, and the occasional season contest threads and the monthly contests threads - it would be a hysteric bunch of threads!

For the Non-English category, I think you should be able to get another person to do the translation. I mean, it is still your story that you wrote, someone else just translated it to another language. Otherwise, it's like punishing those of us who only speak one language. I realize that if you get an immunity, then you can use it for whatever category you wish, but you still lose a point that way (plus, what's the probability of even winning an immunity? with my luck, I won't win any, lol.)

Svenskaflicka said:

But with 40-50 contestants, it would instead mean that we would have to scroll up and down the forum, looking for our thread! It would be exactly the same thing, except it would now be a mess in the forum, instead of a "mess" inside the scoring thread. And since the forum should also host a FAQ thread, a rules thread, immunity threads, and the occasional season contest threads and the monthly contests threads - it would be a hysteric bunch of threads!

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Flicka is right. We will all know where ur scoring threads are and when we want to edit our score, we can just click onto the overall thread and scroll down until we have it. Simple enough and takes less than a minute. Also, it is nice to be able to check on the scores and activity of rivals, and if everybody had their own thread, we might not be able to do it.

I'm unsure of how the bonus point would work for special contests. For the holiday contest, I entered a group sex story, one of several group sex stories for the year. If I had gotten a bonus from this, there would probably be an additional section in the scoring thread labeled "contests" and I would have entered the story under group sex, and taken one point, and in the contest section and taken one point again. If that had been my only group sex story for the year, I would have entered it in the group sex section and taken three points, and in the contest section also, and taken one point. From what I have been told that seems to be the way it would work, and it seems reasonable.

CM, if someone else translates your story, you haven't done anything, so why should you get any credit for it?

Boxlicker101 said:

CM, if someone else translates your story, you haven't done anything, so why should you get any credit for it?

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So, writing the story isn't doing anything? The actual author shouldn't get credit for it, but the translator should? Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

The object of this contest is to write, correct? In order to get the bonus points for all categories, you either have to pray that you get an immunity to use or you end up having to try to find a translation program that from what I hear will mangle it to the point of being unreadable. I don't see a huge difference between having an editor work on your story and having someone translate it. The end result is still the same. The story and written words are still yours. Anyway, that's just my opinion, you can take it or leave it as you see fit. I know that will be the first category that I will be using an immunity towards (hopefully I will get one.)

Boxlicker101 said:

[B I'm unsure of how the bonus point would work for special contests. For the holiday contest, I entered a group sex story, one of several group sex stories for the year. If I had gotten a bonus from this, there would probably be an additional section in the scoring thread labeled "contests" and I would have entered the story under group sex, and taken one point, and in the contest section and taken one point again. If that had been my only group sex story for the year, I would have entered it in the group sex section and taken three points, and in the contest section also, and taken one point. From what I have been told that seems to be the way it would work, and it seems reasonable.

CM, if someone else translates your story, you haven't done anything, so why should you get any credit for it? [/B]

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I also think I'm going to enter this one so here goes.

She is writing the story originally. The IDEA is hers. The WORDS are hers. Someone else is translating it, i.e. purey moving it from one language to another. Do you think they are adding something to it by doing that? What difference does it make if someone else translates for her or a machine does? She is not translating in either case. Of the two I would prefer that it be done by a human who knows what he/she is doing. The starting line of the contest should be the same for all the contestants and some of them should not be handicapped because they do not know another language. My views.

About the contest entry - either you can submit a story in the contest section or the category section, not both! So if you submit a story in the contest section, you get 1,2 however many points for it and NOT in the category in which you have submitted it. How does that sound? And if you win a contest, you get something extra? Just a thought at this point.

Thanks DP, glad to know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

We were writing that simultaneously with the difference in post timing. Great minds.

CrimsonMaiden said:

So, writing the story isn't doing anything? The actual author shouldn't get credit for it, but the translator should? Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

The object of this contest is to write, correct? In order to get the bonus points for all categories, you either have to pray that you get an immunity to use or you end up having to try to find a translation program that from what I hear will mangle it to the point of being unreadable. I don't see a huge difference between having an editor work on your story and having someone translate it. The end result is still the same. The story and written words are still yours. Anyway, that's just my opinion, you can take it or leave it as you see fit. I know that will be the first category that I will be using an immunity towards (hopefully I will get one.)

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Hi, CM. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. If you write an original story, you enter it in one category or another and get one or three points. If, instead of doing that, you take the story to some friends and ask them to translate it into Spanish, and they do, why should you get any credit for that. You should get credit for the original story, one or three points, but nothing for the translation because it is not your work. As for the difference between this and using a computer program, there is no material difference, and I think neither should be allowed.

I believe the rule in the past was that a translation had to be made from English to some other language, and the work being translated could be anything erotic, and didn't have to be the work of the translator. I never really looked into it very closely because I used my first immunity for that category.

As for winning an immunity, assuming the same rules are used, there are seven numbers drawn out of 49 so your chances of winning in a given week are one out of seven. Over the period of one year, 52 drawings, you should win seven or eight times. I'm not really sure of that and higher math is not my strong point but that seems right.

Good luck to you and to DP also. May the most prolific and versatile writer win.

Boxlicker101 said:

I believe the rule in the past was that a translation had to be made from English to some other language, and the work being translated could be anything erotic, and didn't have to be the work of the translator. I never really looked into it very closely because I used my first immunity for that category.

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It's not a 'translation' category, it's simply non-English.

It has been an established rule that the same story can't be submitted in whatever category, then read and submitted as audio, then translated to Japanese and submitted as non-English. Each has to be unique and original.

If you write a story and then give it to a friend to be translated, what's the problem in doing that? It's still your original story. Of course that, if you submit both the translation as non-English and the original as Erotic Couplings, for example, only one of them will be eligible for Survivor.

Lauren Hynde said:

If you write a story and then give it to a friend to be translated, what's the problem in doing that? It's still your original story. Of course that, if you submit both the translation as non-English and the original as Erotic Couplings, for example, only one of them will be eligible for Survivor.

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Lauren, that has been my point all along. That even if it is translated by someone else, it is still *your* story.

The way I understand BL's thoughts on the subject is that once it is translated by someone else, it is no longer your work. That makes no sense to me. The story is still yours. The way I see it, translating is simply editing the story into another language.

I perfectly understand the *submitting it to only one category* rule and totally agree with it.

Simply is the wrong word. Translation is hard to do. It's taken me longer to translate a story than to create one and I'm fluent enough in the target language.

This is my thoughts on the matter after watching this for a while (and not just here). I think that the story should be done by the author (not a translation program or another person). If the author cannot write the story because s/he is not bilingual, that is what immunities are for. Same thing goes for categories like audio and illustrated. Those aren't all that easy either and some people don't have the equipment.

Immunities: There seems to be a relative consensus to give it a week. This seems reasonable enough to me.

There'll be an official rules thread up very soon. The contest should "officially" start shortly after. You may start submitting at any time, of course. There will be some new additions to the rules, so please read them when they're up!

You're right. Simply was the wrong word to use. I am sure that translation isn't an easy task, but of course neither is writing a story.

I read through the discussion thread for last years competition and saw that it was a subject that was highly debated then as well.

I am not looking to start a new debate on this. I know that it's divided and that there is no way to please everyone. I'm glad there are immunities.

Of course you're right, Muffie, but the problem with the rule is it demands for faith in the honesty of the participants. If someone asks a friend to translate a story and doesn't tell anyone, how would we know the difference? But you are right, that's how it should be.

My views

KillerMuffin said:

Simply is the wrong word. Translation is hard to do. It's taken me longer to translate a story than to create one and I'm fluent enough in the target language.

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Yes, but for some (like me) translation is very easy. I'm bilingual, and for me, translating a story requires a little more than an edit.

KillerMuffin said:

This is my thoughts on the matter after watching this for a while (and not just here). I think that the story should be done by the author (not a translation program or another person). If the author cannot write the story because s/he is not bilingual, that is what immunities are for. Same thing goes for categories like audio and illustrated. Those aren't all that easy either and some people don't have the equipment.

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I agree with not using the program. That's a little crazy. My only problem with using immunities in a Non-english category is that participants should be using their immunities for subject matter primarily and not because they are unable to do it for a reason such as knowing or not knowing another language.