oh21
It's Never Enough!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2003
- Posts
- 7,997
This is one of the most enlightening yet highly entertaining articles I've ever read. I hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html
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Pyper said:.
Female bonobos may rub their clitorises together
are probably more likely friendship or dominance behaviors,
Pyper said:...I tend to believe that there are no homosexual animals. Here's why: although countless species participate in what appears to be same-gender sexual behavior, there has not been one case, to date, of an animal that was exclusively homosexual. Female bonobos may rub their clitorises together, male bulls and dogs may mount each other, yet they all commonly participate in sex with the opposite gender as well. These behaviors, which we perceive as "gay," are probably more likely friendship or dominance behaviors, depending on the species.
Angel said:I do that often.
Etoile said:What about those penguins in the zoo somewhere? Was that central park zoo?
Pyper said:I do seem to remember some hoopla in the media about gay penguins a while ago.
One thing to remember about same-sex animals that seem to have chosen each other as long time companions, though, is that they are almost always a product of an unnatural upbringing in captivity. For one reason or another, they weren't exposed to natural reproductive behavior and latch on to the "wrong" partner. This seems to be especially common in birds, and might have something to do with their imprinting instincts (think of the many cases of birds that have chosen humans as their parents or as their mates).
In humans, by contrast, homosexuality seems to arise naturally, no matter what the culture or the upbringing.
Stuponfucious said:That makes sense. In fact praying mantis females only kill the males after mating if they're in captivity, so the environment has a profound effect on animal behavior.
But I would like to disagree with the last part.
I don't think that all homoseuxals are necessarily gay because the were 'born that way,' that it's genetic or however one would like to explain it. As far as I know, no 'gay gene' has ever been found...that is, no such study results have been verified by numerous independant, nonprofit sources, although there have been a few unsubstantiated claims.
Anyway, I think some choose to be homosexual and some have felt different ever since they were a young child. My point is, I think it varies. I don't think it's necessarily one way or the other.
Xtaabay said:So far as scientists know, you will not find a gay gene. What you'll find is a certain releasing of chemicals at various stages throughout the pregnancy, which scientists are fairly certain (at this point) affect the sexual orientation of the child. The timing of chemical releases, and the strength and type of chemicals seems to be genetic--which is why families with a gay member may have more than one gay family member. In that way, it can be said to be genetic. But there is not, as far as anyone has found, any sort of a gay gene. I woudl argue that many people do have a particular sexual orientation from birth. But since I'm not a specialist in genetics or chemistry, I can't do a very good job of discussing the specifics.
Stuponfucious said:Well, I'll buy that, but I feel compelled to say that if there is not a gay gene that we know of, then by definition we can not say it's genetic. The gene(s) that cause the release (or increase) of these chemicals is what is genetic. That may seem like a semantic point, but I think it's important to be clear that homosexuality itself is not directly caused by a genetic factor.
I think it's also important to emphasize again that not all homosexuals are born as such.
Stuponfucious said:Well, I'll buy that, but I feel compelled to say that if there is not a gay gene that we know of, then by definition we can not say it's genetic.
Pyper said:That's incorrect. Most of our genetic characteristics are not caused by "a gene" by rather a complicated combination of genes and chromosomes. Something as simple as eye color is caused by the combination of multiple genes.
Even if homosexuality is genetic, we are extremely far from finding what part of our genome contributes, simply due to the complexity of it and our newness to the field. Also, saying that just because we haven't found it means it doesn't exist is extremely naive.
Research that has been done on the topic of what makes homosexuals homosexual is very limited so far. As Xtaabay said, some scientists believe that it is caused by hormones in the womb. Research done on male homosexuals does confirm that their brain chemistry is different from that of straight men, so there is a definite biological link, disproving the idea that sexual orientation is purely psychological.
Yep. They were from zoofur.com if anybody feels like seeking them out for themselves.Stuponfucious said:I take it the removed images featured animals of the same gender engaging in what appeared to be sexual behavior?