Snuff Story - Prohibited on Literotica or Not?

Good Day,

I've recently engaged in a rather direct e-mail exchange with a writer about his story, submitted and accepted into the BDSM category, in which the male lead character is murdered. The writer admitted to attempting to tag the story with "snuff", but the term was rejected in the tagging. Therefore, I ask, are snuff stories prohibited on Literotica?

Thank you!

SoCalCynic

If the murder was part of a murder mystery in which the focus is on the mystery, that seems to fly. (You can't very well have a murder mystery without murder, and murder mysteries are a bread and butter literary form). If the focus of the story is directly on a grizzly murder, this is a different matter, and apparently is sometimes rejected, apparently, especially if the story revels and climaxes in the graphic death.

My most recent murder mystery chapter posting ends in a murder--and a pretty snuffy one--and it was accepted (as were three previous murder mystery chaptered novels in this series). And I don't see why it shouldn't have been. You can't have a murder mystery without murders and murder mysteries are bread and butter literay forms. The mainstream describes its murders in quite graphic, grizzly form often as well.

The "snuff" form is really something quite different and arose in images rather than prose--with the snuff part being the recording of an actual murder.

SoCalCynic said:

The writer admitted to attempting to tag the story with "snuff", but the term was rejected in the tagging. Therefore, I ask, are snuff stories prohibited on Literotica?

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That's a misleading flow of consciousness if ever I saw one

There are quite a few story tags that are blocked. "Torture" is another. These are just words used to label the story. Some are blocked by a simple filter because the site (I assume) doesn't want to create a perception it is encouraging "bad" deviancy.

For the stories themselves things seem to be a little more open. If death is intrinsic to the plot--because it's a murder mystery, or a horror story--then the story is usually fine. I'm not sure of the exact criteria, but PoV might be important. Most of my demon stories end with the death of the protagonist and I've never had one bounced for that. I was contacted by someone who did have a story rejected. It covered similar ground as my stories, but the crucial difference was it was from the PoV of a demon character and they seemed to be having far too much fun taking someone apart during sex. Even there, I've read similar stories that were accepted in the horror category, so I don't think it's an exact process.

From KillerMuffin's Sticky at the top of this forum: explanation of rejection reasons:

Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?
Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

Yep, the keywords are far more restricted than the story content.

Here's the excessive cruelty rejection I mentioned in another post. Much like rape fantasy vs. rapist fantasy, it's hard to pin down. You more or less have to submit, and see if it goes through.

Darkniciad said:

Yep, the keywords are far more restricted than the story content.

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I agree. I even had a gay sex fantasy story shot down because I titled it Snufflalluffagus does Snuffy Smith.

oggbashan said:

From KillerMuffin's Sticky at the top of this forum: explanation of rejection reasons:

Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?
Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

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I tried to use this statement/link in an argument that lit does have a rule against rape. I was shot down saying that this is "killermuffins" thread and not the rules.

However the link to what you found is found in the submission guide lines "muffin" did not place it there herself the site must have. If the site did then common sense would tell me that the site endorses it. Hoever I was told no! it is not a rule.

this is yet another recent thread that proves that it would be helpful if the site would take a few minutes to make a very simple list of rules. take the guess work out and make it easier on authors.

Right now what occurs is an Abbot and Costello like routine.

Does lit have a rule against rape?

No.

Great going to write me a rape story. Hey wait it was rejected! Experienced authors do you know why it a was?

Well did the story contain rape?

Yes.

well then that's why!

so lit does have a rule against rape!

Nope.

This is what goes on. The standard answer is "they can have whatever rules they want" No argument there but again why the hell won;t they just post the damn do's and don't's

This has nothing to do with me personally. I have had one kick back (under age did not put any sex but said character was 16 I have since made adjustments and it has not happened since) but I see tons of these threads that could be answered with an actual set of rules.

This is the part where people rush in to say I'm an asshole for asking for a concrete set of rules.

Another standard reply is depends whose looking. Okay again if the rules were concrete it wouldn't matter who was looking they have an actual list to go by.

Anyway just stating something I think is obvious, people cannot follow the rules if they are not told what they are.

No, you're an asshole because you incessantly whine at the forum about it, when it's clear that you need to be whine directly to the Web site owners. There are a whole hell of a lot of problems with the guidance given on the Web site. But a decade of yammerings at the forum haven't changed that. Use the PM function and talk to them directly; they aren't reading this forum.

sr71plt said:

No, you're an asshole because you incessantly whine at the forum about it, when it's clear that you need to be whine directly to the Web site owners. There are a whole hell of a lot of problems with the guidance given on the Web site. But a decade of yammerings at the forum haven't changed that. Use the PM function and talk to them directly; they aren't reading this forum.

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You Lose

I lose what? I didn't sign up for any sort of competition.

Sort of a crude way to change the subject, though.

sr71plt said:

I lose what? I didn't sign up for any sort of competition.

Sort of a crude way to change the subject, though.

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http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=775769&page=4

Post #100.

You know damn well what I meant, unless senility has now replaced delusional narcissism in your brain.

I knew you would come in on this one. Knew it!

I did however once send a pm asking for the possibility of some more specific guidelines but no response.

That is all I can do and believe it or not I unlike you was thinking of others who are frustrated with rejections.

To me it doesn't matter, none of my stuff breaks any of their "pseudo rules' so no issue for me.

I was waiting to see if you could resist.

More detail about the case might help; in the story, a young male D/S newbie is taken in by the owner of the hotel in which he is staying. The owner is one of the leaders of a group of female dominants; the owner takes the young man to her mansion, where she and the group proceed to torture him, murder him, castrate him post-mortem, then burn his corpse.

Yes, this story was submitted and approved - I can provide a hyperlink to it upon request.

I wouldn't make this up...

I'm not sure what your question is anymore. What do you expect forum readers to do with this question now? This isn't where stories are either accepted or rejected and forum readers aren't the ones who do it.

Ahem, since nobody has outlined it I'm going to just say it. A snuff film or story is one of the above that contains someone being killed for the pleasure of the viewer and killer during sex.

Going with the original story in question, unless he is murdered during sex and they get their jollies in that it is not a snuff story.

Snuff isn't just killing someone, it's killing someone during sex for the enjoyment of others. In my vampire series, the vampire right at the very beginning dies during sex, well it's not exactly laid out as dies, but basically. That was accepted because the enjoyment isn't in the death, and not really dies anyway. The closest thing to a snuff story you can get on literotica is a misunderstood rape that ends in a stabbing. No idea if the story is even listed anymore. Generally it's best to read up on these things before starting threads on it.

emap said:

Ahem, since nobody has outlined it I'm going to just say it. A snuff film or story is one of the above that contains someone being killed for the pleasure of the viewer and killer during sex.

Going with the original story in question, unless he is murdered during sex and they get their jollies in that it is not a snuff story.

Snuff isn't just killing someone, it's killing someone during sex for the enjoyment of others. In my vampire series, the vampire right at the very beginning dies during sex, well it's not exactly laid out as dies, but basically. That was accepted because the enjoyment isn't in the death, and not really dies anyway. The closest thing to a snuff story you can get on literotica is a misunderstood rape that ends in a stabbing. No idea if the story is even listed anymore. Generally it's best to read up on these things before starting threads on it.

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If that is what snuff is, then I would probably consider this story snuff (I found it after searching using the story search function). He is told he will be killed, he's drugged, he engages in various sex acts, he is strung up to be hanged while the women all record the activities, and then he orgasms while dying. It's stated that the women pay money to be involved with his killing, and that they get off on it. He's castrated while still alive, and we are told that after his death, his balls are pickled and displayed, and his penis is grilled and cut into "morsels" to be sold to fund another round of killing.

There's more going on, but that's the general idea. While he doesn't die during intercourse, he certainly dies in a sexually charged atmosphere.

sr71plt said:

I'm not sure what your question is anymore. What do you expect forum readers to do with this question now? This isn't where stories are either accepted or rejected and forum readers aren't the ones who do it.

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No, it isn't. While I can't speak for SoCalCynic, when I read a story that repulses me, sometimes I wonder if it isn't allowed at lit or if it just isn't my taste. I suppose if I felt strongly enough about a story's inappropriateness, I'd probably ask about lit's rules before hitting the "report story" button. Perhaps that is the wrong approach, though.

As for this particular story... I only read the last page, but it just seemed so far out there that I had a hard time being outraged.

Playing with words - or people

manyeyedhydra said:

There are quite a few story tags that are blocked. "Torture" is another. These are just words used to label the story.

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It is strange, in my opinion, that this story tag is blocked when there is a section for BDSM and where humiliation of a woman seems to be an important part of many other stories.
Does a man not make himself greater when he increases the prestige of the woman he is going to make his lover?

Man_in_Chester said:

It is strange, in my opinion, that this story tag is blocked when there is a section for BDSM and where humiliation of a woman seems to be an important part of many other stories.
Does a man not make himself greater when he increases the prestige of the woman he is going to make his lover?

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Don't confuse BDSM with torture. They are not the same.

Humiliation can be a part of BDSM. It can be a part of torture. This does not make torture part of BDSM.

sadangel said:

Don't confuse BDSM with torture. They are not the same.

Humiliation can be a part of BDSM. It can be a part of torture. This does not make torture part of BDSM.

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Correct. No matter how degrading or even flat out rough BDSM sex can be ( and let's not forget that women can be just as cruel to men here!) it is always consensual.

It is called submitting for a reason. It is not non consent, nor is it rape. There may be some reluctance, but that is part of the total surrender that is an important part of a BDSM relationship.

Whenever I see a post like the one above I know that this is a person who has no concept of BDSM beyond "whips and leather"

violence guidelines.

while muffin is not far off and is semiofficial, some recent points of Laurel, are as follows, and have been posted.

Laurel oldWhile we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously physically harmed/abused.

Laurel, new Basically, we allow ravishment, painplay, most BDSM situations – as well as situations one finds in horror movies. What we don't publish is stuff like castration and amputation written for sexual arousal (though we do allow a character to be castrated or have a limb amputated if the plot calls for it) and stuff like erotic cannibalism and "snuff" (graphic depictions of murder meant for sexual titillation).

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I'm not sure what Lovey is on about. The guidelines are pretty clear.
Their implementation is not crystal pure, perhaps because of the volume of stories approved--hundreds per day-- and the amount of inspection a story generally receives. I might also mention that some authors 'telegraph' the presence of questionable or 'gray' items, in their titles, tag lines and ancillary material. They then complain when the one in charge of approving the story declines to spend an hour on textual analysis and the nuances of willingness and pleasure, and simply hits "not approved."

Pure said:

while muffin is not far off and is semiofficial, some recent points of Laurel, are as follows, and have been posted.

Laurel oldWhile we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously physically harmed/abused.

Laurel, new Basically, we allow ravishment, painplay, most BDSM situations – as well as situations one finds in horror movies. What we don't publish is stuff like castration and amputation written for sexual arousal (though we do allow a character to be castrated or have a limb amputated if the plot calls for it) and stuff like erotic cannibalism and "snuff" (graphic depictions of murder meant for sexual titillation).

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I'm not sure what Lovey is on about. The guidelines are pretty clear.
Their implementation is not crystal pure, perhaps because of the volume of stories approved--hundreds per day-- and the amount of inspection a story generally receives. I might also mention that some authors 'telegraph' the presence of questionable or 'gray' items, in their titles, tag lines and ancillary material. They then complain when the one in charge of approving the story declines to spend an hour on textual analysis and the nuances of willingness and pleasure, and simply hits "not approved."

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All Lovey was on about was putting out something that I knew that blowhard of a "secret agent" couldn't resist responding to.

Just proves again how predictable he really is. I don't care about the rules I generally do not write anything that breaks them.

Although I would like to see an actual "list" at some point just to try to clarify somethings. But whatever, always fun to watch a fish take the bait.

Bullshit, lovey. You are just a slave to your one-note sambas--in this case whining incessantly to the wrong people about what the Web site should do for you. And now you're trying to rub out your tracks.

Didn't someone make a thread specifically for you two to express your mutual admiration for each other?

kitkat88 said:

Whenever I see a post like the one above I know that this is a person who has no concept of BDSM beyond "whips and leather"

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This site also has an erotic horror category, and a BDSM scenario breaking down into something far sinister is rich fuel for a horror writer.

Spacefender said:

Didn't someone make a thread specifically for you two to express your mutual admiration for each other?

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I comment to the thread discussion. If it's LC I'm commenting too, that's just tough.

Here he's claiming he posted specifically to get me to comment. So, yap at him, not me.

To SR71Plt - I was asking for clarification on Lit's rules about snuff stories, since what I had found in my searching on the site didn't clearly state the matter one way or another.

Thanks for the comments, one and all.