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Of lingerie and labels

Gorza

Gorza

Literotica Guru
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Posts
587
Lingerie is a sexy French word, isn't it? It happens not to be so sexy in French, mind.

As a boy writer, I am always getting lingerie wrong. I've mostly avoided the male colonialism redolent in mamarian surveys and metrics. Of course, the basque and the garter belt speak of the boudoir. When we write characters we can say much about a woman by describing her lingerie that a reader, especially a woman reader, might pick up (yes indeed, men's underwear could also be described in the same manner). Does she dress in such a way that she's always ready to make a show of undressing, or has she been caught unawares in practical but unflattering underthings? Is colour about matching other clothes and skin tone, or is there deeper meaning in a choice of colour? If she wear Agent Provocateur or La Perla, do they signal different things? What would an easy-going woman wear, or a tomboy? Boy shorts?

O ladies, educate ye me!
 
Gorza said:
Lingerie is a sexy French word, isn't it? It happens not to be so sexy in French, mind.

As a boy writer, I am always getting lingerie wrong. I've mostly avoided the male colonialism redolent in mamarian surveys and metrics. Of course, the basque and the garter belt speak of the boudoir. When we write characters we can say much about a woman by describing her lingerie that a reader, especially a woman reader, might pick up (yes indeed, men's underwear could also be described in the same manner). Does she dress in such a way that she's always ready to make a show of undressing, or has she been caught unawares in practical but unflattering underthings? Is colour about matching other clothes and skin tone, or is there deeper meaning in a choice of colour? If she wear Agent Provocateur or La Perla, do they signal different things? What would an easy-going woman wear, or a tomboy? Boy shorts?

O ladies, educate ye me!
Click to expand...

I know a very pretty girl who is very uninterested in male attention. She simply wears loose clothing, keeps her face expressionless when not among friends, and counts on the fact that males are too stupid to know what's under the clothes or behind the expression. It works.

Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.

Even the horniest of hornball women likes to revel in comfy (=unsexy) clothing, at least sometimes.

Red is an erotic color to males - studies done, etc. I've talked to women and some don't seem to know this. Black and lots of it can signal interest, but not always. Other colors don't have meaning that I know of.

I don't understand shoes. but straps=sex.

Except for on dates, the cut of the underwear doesn't mean much. You aren't going to see it so they'll just wear what's clean, and if they start digging into their reserve of lacies, tomorrow is laundry day.

A woman in a business or formal situation is dressing that way because she has to - it doesn't signal anything at all. Weddings can be an exception.

Guys don't know Victoria's Secret from Agent Provocateur (well, some of us do, but we have bad habits). Getting a hot looking fit out of lingerie is so hard they'll buy what works.

Women use "cute" and "romantic" as codewords for "sexy" when describing clothing. If she actually calls her bra sexy she's on the phone to a male and the male being told to come over right away. And better.

I can't read hair, but a change in hairstyle may mean a boyfriend has just been dumped or is about to be. Or she wants more attention from her husband. Woe betide if it goes unnoticed.

A woman who spends fifteen minutes picking out a pair of shoes doesn't know what mood she's in - and may want you to decide her mood for her. Or not. Pick the strappy ones. If she immediately says no, you aren't getting any.

Not a woman, just been observing them for awhile.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
I know a very pretty girl who is very uninterested in male attention. She simply wears loose clothing, keeps her face expressionless when not among friends, and counts on the fact that males are too stupid to know what's under the clothes or behind the expression. It works.

Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.

Even the horniest of hornball women likes to revel in comfy (=unsexy) clothing, at least sometimes.

Red is an erotic color to males - studies done, etc. I've talked to women and some don't seem to know this. Black and lots of it can signal interest, but not always. Other colors don't have meaning that I know of.

I don't understand shoes. but straps=sex.

Except for on dates, the cut of the underwear doesn't mean much. You aren't going to see it so they'll just wear what's clean, and if they start digging into their reserve of lacies, tomorrow is laundry day.

A woman in a business or formal situation is dressing that way because she has to - it doesn't signal anything at all. Weddings can be an exception.

Guys don't know Victoria's Secret from Agent Provocateur (well, some of us do, but we have bad habits). Getting a hot looking fit out of lingerie is so hard they'll buy what works.

Women use "cute" and "romantic" as codewords for "sexy" when describing clothing. If she actually calls her bra sexy she's on the phone to a male and the male being told to come over right away. And better.

I can't read hair, but a change in hairstyle may mean a boyfriend has just been dumped or is about to be. Or she wants more attention from her husband. Woe betide if it goes unnoticed.

A woman who spends fifteen minutes picking out a pair of shoes doesn't know what mood she's in - and may want you to decide her mood for her. Or not. Pick the strappy ones. If she immediately says no, you aren't getting any.

Not a woman, just been observing them for awhile.
Click to expand...


Uh ... What? As a woman, I just don't know what to say about any of this! It's a nice ... effort?
 
HandsInTheDark said:
I know a very pretty girl who is very uninterested in male attention. She simply wears loose clothing, keeps her face expressionless when not among friends, and counts on the fact that males are too stupid to know what's under the clothes or behind the expression. It works.

Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.

Even the horniest of hornball women likes to revel in comfy (=unsexy) clothing, at least sometimes.

Red is an erotic color to males - studies done, etc. I've talked to women and some don't seem to know this. Black and lots of it can signal interest, but not always. Other colors don't have meaning that I know of.

I don't understand shoes. but straps=sex.

Except for on dates, the cut of the underwear doesn't mean much. You aren't going to see it so they'll just wear what's clean, and if they start digging into their reserve of lacies, tomorrow is laundry day.

A woman in a business or formal situation is dressing that way because she has to - it doesn't signal anything at all. Weddings can be an exception.

Guys don't know Victoria's Secret from Agent Provocateur (well, some of us do, but we have bad habits). Getting a hot looking fit out of lingerie is so hard they'll buy what works.

Women use "cute" and "romantic" as codewords for "sexy" when describing clothing. If she actually calls her bra sexy she's on the phone to a male and the male being told to come over right away. And better.

I can't read hair, but a change in hairstyle may mean a boyfriend has just been dumped or is about to be. Or she wants more attention from her husband. Woe betide if it goes unnoticed.

A woman who spends fifteen minutes picking out a pair of shoes doesn't know what mood she's in - and may want you to decide her mood for her. Or not. Pick the strappy ones. If she immediately says no, you aren't getting any.

Not a woman, just been observing them for awhile.
Click to expand...

Missed it by a mile my friend and keep in mind observing isn't being inside someone's head.

Being male I'm not even going to try and take a shot at my thoughts on it, I'll most likely be off too, but know enough not to give it a shot because comments like the one in bold....would be a reason not to get any:D
 
I find that a great alternative to trying to read a woman's mind from her wardrobe choices is to use my words and ask her. Saves heaps of time and uncertainty.
 
I don't feel entirely clear about what you want to know Gorza, but i am going to try and answer anyway.

if i met someone who bought their underwear from either La Perla or Agent provocateur i would assume they were very rich, or a real underwear enthusiast, La Perla bras usually come in at well over £100.

I would think of a tomboy (or someone more concerned with function over aesthetic) would go for plain cotton rich (sloggi springs to mind)

there is an inordinate selection of knickers in most department stores, full brief, high leg, bikini, seamless/no VLP thongs, brazilian I could go on. I guess your choice would be based on body type or comfort. for instance I have a shapely figure so I've always shied away from pants that form a horizontal line across my hips like low rise or boy shorts.

Bras, women I've spoken to tend to find a type that suits their bust -I don't know why but I guess different types of bra suit different busts, I like the way the balconette looks but I get on better with the plunge. almost everyone I know buys their underwear from Marks, apart from fiercely loyal the bravissimo crew (Bravissimo specialise in bras for the larger cup size)

Those small frilly sets, that come with matching garter belts and stockings, i don't know anyone who wears them outside of the bedroom, and pretty much everyone I know has their 'comfy slobbing around the house' underwear and their 'i'm getting some tonight' underwear even though it might not be the cliched pink lacy negligee etc.

I hope that helps.

HandsInTheDark said:
Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.
Click to expand...

I do not know of this 'code' of which you speak
 
Gorza said:
Lingerie is a sexy French word, isn't it? It happens not to be so sexy in French, mind.

As a boy writer, I am always getting lingerie wrong. I've mostly avoided the male colonialism redolent in mamarian surveys and metrics. Of course, the basque and the garter belt speak of the boudoir. When we write characters we can say much about a woman by describing her lingerie that a reader, especially a woman reader, might pick up (yes indeed, men's underwear could also be described in the same manner). Does she dress in such a way that she's always ready to make a show of undressing, or has she been caught unawares in practical but unflattering underthings? Is colour about matching other clothes and skin tone, or is there deeper meaning in a choice of colour? If she wear Agent Provocateur or La Perla, do they signal different things? What would an easy-going woman wear, or a tomboy? Boy shorts?

O ladies, educate ye me!
Click to expand...

Wow! Looked at those lingerie companies you mentioned (I know LP but not AP, except as a news article source) - if I had that kind of money, I'd spend it on boots or shoes instead.

Adore Me in the US is probably modeled after AP in the US, at more, let us say, proletarian prices. But perhaps the circles and women you run in/with differ than those I'm used to. Is the air very thin up there? Do you have to buy bottles of oxygen? Or just Moët? ;)

And to me a basque is this French beret thingie my dad used to wear, and which I still have. Not very sexy on him at all, nor on the French villagers in movies like Chocolat.

But, let's see, your question.... yes, special nights call for special wear, over and under. And the under tends towards skimpier. And sexy dress does make one feel sexy, just like suits or their equivalent are a kind of armor both women and men don professionally.

Jewelry is also telling - dangly things, chains or pearls hanging in places that draw the eye towards, well, you know...

Personally I used to be a black-only girl (uh, woman - :Roll Eyes: ), and only the density of the lace varied, but I've been experimenting with color more.

However, I would say that ultimately, the attitude and mood makes up for being caught unawares in not-so-sexy undergarments.

And shoes are in a class of their own. Those things you see my toes in? Love the look but hate to wear them - ever tried to walk in 4 inch heels? They're torture thought up by men who want to keep their women from running off.

I'm looking forward to getting educated further. Perhaps this thread will turn out like Naoko's?
 
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Oh... I thought we were talking about in a story and was nodding all the way through HitD's soliloquy. It seemed to make perfect sense to me to incorporate that into a story. Then again, I'm a guy.

If we are talking Real Life, forget about it.

There was some research study, I can't recall by whom, about communication. Apparently men tend to communicate on one level, what is said, with a possibility to go up to three with intensive training. Women, on the other hand, communicate in a minimum of five different levels. What is said, what is not said, how it is said... and I forget the other two.

Yeah, Bramble, I've tried using the words. And gotten, "You know." with a stare. Women it seems either enjoy laughing at us or give us WAY too much credit.

As far as the language of their clothing and in particular their delicates, I couldn't even hazard a guess if HandsInTheDark was off target.

But, I suppose it is supposed to be that way. I managed to get my hands on "The Girl Rulebook" once. I only managed to get a glimpse of the first page before my wife caught me. On it, in big block letters, it said;

Rule 1; Any time a male comes close to figuring out these rules, change them immediately. Failure to do so will result in the immediate revocation of PMS privileges and immunities.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
I know a very pretty girl who is very uninterested in male attention. She simply wears loose clothing, keeps her face expressionless when not among friends, and counts on the fact that males are too stupid to know what's under the clothes or behind the expression. It works.

Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.

Even the horniest of hornball women likes to revel in comfy (=unsexy) clothing, at least sometimes.

Red is an erotic color to males - studies done, etc. I've talked to women and some don't seem to know this. Black and lots of it can signal interest, but not always. Other colors don't have meaning that I know of.

I don't understand shoes. but straps=sex.

Except for on dates, the cut of the underwear doesn't mean much. You aren't going to see it so they'll just wear what's clean, and if they start digging into their reserve of lacies, tomorrow is laundry day.

A woman in a business or formal situation is dressing that way because she has to - it doesn't signal anything at all. Weddings can be an exception.

Guys don't know Victoria's Secret from Agent Provocateur (well, some of us do, but we have bad habits). Getting a hot looking fit out of lingerie is so hard they'll buy what works.

Women use "cute" and "romantic" as codewords for "sexy" when describing clothing. If she actually calls her bra sexy she's on the phone to a male and the male being told to come over right away. And better.

I can't read hair, but a change in hairstyle may mean a boyfriend has just been dumped or is about to be. Or she wants more attention from her husband. Woe betide if it goes unnoticed.

A woman who spends fifteen minutes picking out a pair of shoes doesn't know what mood she's in - and may want you to decide her mood for her. Or not. Pick the strappy ones. If she immediately says no, you aren't getting any.

Not a woman, just been observing them for awhile.
Click to expand...

Your alternate reality sounds like a nice place...perhaps you should visit ours sometime...
 
HandsInTheDark said:
Women have a code in their clothing. If everything a women wears is tight, she's cruising for sex (and other women will call her a skank and worse). If she's interested but dignified, there will be both tight and loose elements, and nice shoes. Comfy shoes and a loose look - leave her alone. She's invisible (how did you even notice her?) and wants to be.
Click to expand...


lol. That will work, but it is slightly simplistic. I see it like this: If everything a woman wears is tight, then that's her prerogative and sex may or may not be on her mind, but it is not the point. She has the confidence to strut it and she doesn't give a damn what other people think. Admirable.

Tight and loose elements reflect an aesthetic taste and/or perhaps a certain level of regard for what other people think. If I were a guy I would prefer this style over tight and sexy.

I differentiate between a loose look and a baggy look. Loose can be an intentional style whilst baggy can reveal a disinterest in fashion.

But women are not confined to one category. Context also matters.
 
Gorza said:
Lingerie is a sexy French word, isn't it? It happens not to be so sexy in French, mind.

As a boy writer, I am always getting lingerie wrong. I've mostly avoided the male colonialism redolent in mamarian surveys and metrics. Of course, the basque and the garter belt speak of the boudoir. When we write characters we can say much about a woman by describing her lingerie that a reader, especially a woman reader, might pick up (yes indeed, men's underwear could also be described in the same manner). Does she dress in such a way that she's always ready to make a show of undressing, or has she been caught unawares in practical but unflattering underthings? Is colour about matching other clothes and skin tone, or is there deeper meaning in a choice of colour? If she wear Agent Provocateur or La Perla, do they signal different things? What would an easy-going woman wear, or a tomboy? Boy shorts?

O ladies, educate ye me!
Click to expand...


I think I'm less equipped to answer your question. But here are my two cents.

Personality, style and taste would play a part in a woman's choice of lingerie. I think colour is always relative to the individual though. Never take someone else's advice for what looks good because it may not ring true for your own skin tone and body shape. Then there is also the matter of style and taste. What looks good on her may not actually be to her taste, so it is outside of her style, though she can decide to be experimental and take a leap. There is somewhat a venn diagram straddling cute, playful, hot and sexy when it comes to lingerie. Can be all four, or one more than the other.

Agree with karaline and legerdemer. Personally I prefer plain cotton underthings and am almost exclusively black and white in that department. Lace always manages to wriggle itself between my bum cheeks when I'm walking, which is actually not that comfortable to me. But I would pick something lacy for a guy. :)
 
Lori_the_Hoosier said:
Your alternate reality sounds like a nice place...perhaps you should visit ours sometime...
Click to expand...

I've seen one woman actually explain her view on clothing in this thread so far, and it didn't sound that different from mine. So please share.

Like I said, mine's based on observation, and asking a lot of women a lot of questions. That's not the same as insight.
 
Ewobbit said:
There was some research study, I can't recall by whom, about communication. Apparently men tend to communicate on one level, what is said, with a possibility to go up to three with intensive training. Women, on the other hand, communicate in a minimum of five different levels. What is said, what is not said, how it is said... and I forget the other two.
Click to expand...

Hard to comment on a study without knowing where to look up the details, but I know enough women to take that sort of generalisation with an extremely large grain of salt. I think the other two levels of communication you're referring to might be subtext and body language, but I've known several women who are oblivious to such things, and men who are sensitive to them.

Yeah, Bramble, I've tried using the words. And gotten, "You know." with a stare. Women it seems either enjoy laughing at us or give us WAY too much credit.
Click to expand...

There are some women like that. I hang around with the other kind; I can't say I've ever noticed a shortage.
 
I'm amused.

I think that women do not chose their underwear to please men. They chose their underwear to be comfortable.

Now, it you're wondering what the fetishist types might want, then the author's forum might be the wrong place to ask. I do enjoy the answers, though.
 
I wear clothes that feel good and comfortable without being the billowy-robe sort of dress. When I wear heels, it isn't for you men. When I wear a skirt, it isn't for drawing attention. When I apply make-up, lingerie, anything...it doesn't always have to involve a man in the equation.

It's because I like wearing it. Period. It's as simple as that.

Being a woman, I never make general statements about my gender. What gives a man the same right, I'll never know. Seeing "Women do this because of this" statements are irritating, especially when you know they aren't true for yourself or the 50 friends you have.


HandsInTheDark said:
When Women wear....

-snip-
Click to expand...

It'd be great if you start every sentence with "I think" and "In my experience".

Broad generalization makes people look like an ass. :)
 
HandsInTheDark said:
Guys don't know Victoria's Secret from Agent Provocateur (well, some of us do, but we have bad habits). Getting a hot looking fit out of lingerie is so hard they'll buy what works.

Not a woman, just been observing them for awhile.
Click to expand...

I find it amusing, (at least up until when we got reliable Internet connections at a reasonable price) to note that the makers of 'posh' lacy lingerie are assumed to be easily available.
Does every town in the US have a VS store ?
I believe that there are 4 in the Home Counties (that's the South East for those not aware), and 4 more further north.
It's not like going to your local Marks & Spencer, is it (and of course there's little matter of costs. . .).
 
Learin said:
It'd be great if you start every sentence with "I think" and "In my experience".

Broad generalization makes people look like an ass. :)
Click to expand...

Everything I write here is thought and experience. The qualifier is implicit in anyone's writing.

If I wrote sentences the way you described I'd sound timid and vague. I'd rather be thought an ass.
 
Handley_Page said:
I find it amusing, (at least up until when we got reliable Internet connections at a reasonable price) to note that the makers of 'posh' lacy lingerie are assumed to be easily available.
Does every town in the US have a VS store ?
I believe that there are 4 in the Home Counties (that's the South East for those not aware), and 4 more further north.
It's not like going to your local Marks & Spencer, is it (and of course there's little matter of costs. . .).
Click to expand...

I don't buy underwear online, or shoes or trousers, they're too fitted and theres too much variation between brands.
 
I studied people from 1967 till I retired in 2005.

I was raised around a mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, aunts, cousins, and 5 sisters. I paid attention. I have 3 daughters and 5 grand daughters. I was sexually involved with 30 women. I've been married since 1973, to the same woman. When I retired I was the lone male outta 7 staff on my 'team.'

What I know about females will fill about half my first jock. It was SMALL. My female kin had a hoot with its nomenclature, Small PAL. But the following factoids are true:

Females are the most violent and aggressive humans, rapists generally get STDs from their victims, and females are slaves to their appetites and physical needs. If she wants you she'll come get you.

Females ALWAYS dress to make an impression with someone, usually women who matter. When she walks out the door her ma knows if she'll get laid. Ma forms her conclusions on how much trouble her Angel will have getting to Heaven on the date.

Females season speech with whats on her mind.
 
As a man, I find the expensive lingerie pointless. It does nothing for me to know that a woman spent a large amount on a bra.

As for signals from lingerie? Most of the time I won't see it, so how can I read the signals?

What I do find attractive is a woman that is content with her body, and happy with what she is wearing. I think that comfortable, well-fitted and supportive (if necessary) items of underwear are more helpful to making her feel content than the cost. The cost, perhaps from knowing that she can afford high-priced lingerie if she wants to, can be part of that content.

I'm more interested in the person she is, then the body she's in, than what she is or is not wearing. If sensible Sloggi full panties make her feel relaxed and comfortable, then they make her attractive.
 
oggbashan said:
As a man, I find the expensive lingerie pointless. It does nothing for me to know that a woman spent a large amount on a bra.

As for signals from lingerie? Most of the time I won't see it, so how can I read the signals?

What I do find attractive is a woman that is content with her body, and happy with what she is wearing. I think that comfortable, well-fitted and supportive (if necessary) items of underwear are more helpful to making her feel content than the cost. The cost, perhaps from knowing that she can afford high-priced lingerie if she wants to, can be part of that content.

I'm more interested in the person she is, then the body she's in, than what she is or is not wearing. If sensible Sloggi full panties make her feel relaxed and comfortable, then they make her attractive.
Click to expand...

No female is ever contented, and she's always ready to trade UP. With girls life is a relentless hunt for the next prime number. If she finds it youre history, be you a bra or car or house or job or hunka burning love.
 
Handley_Page said:
Does every town in the US have a VS store ?
Click to expand...

Yes, pretty much. Any decent sized town has one, even in the middle of our country where your nearest neighbor might be a a mile or two away.

There are 3 (maybe 4) VS stores within 15 miles of me and I live just outside a city of less than 50,000 people.

You should come over some time. I think you'd be surprised at how things are done over here, not to mention the distances involved. I recently drove 2 1/2 days to see relatives 1,700 miles away. On my first day I drove through six different states. Not something you'd do in England.
 
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HandsInTheDark said:
Everything I write here is thought and experience. The qualifier is implicit in anyone's writing.

If I wrote sentences the way you described I'd sound timid and vague. I'd rather be thought an ass.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. In a place where everyone's throwing their opinion around like grenades, it's best to add words like "most"/"in my experience". These can be ignored in a normal day-to-day conversation, with a person standing in front of me or just by hearing his/her voice. I'd know whether it's a from-an-experience word or if he's just being an expert with no experience whatsoever.

Anyway, what I meant was that it'll be great if you'd stop stating unproven, unverified facts with definitive statements. That blatant generalisation is what makes your statements irritating and uneducated.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
I've seen one woman actually explain her view on clothing in this thread so far, and it didn't sound that different from mine. So please share.

Like I said, mine's based on observation, and asking a lot of women a lot of questions. That's not the same as insight.
Click to expand...

Can I clarify that my view is quite different from yours. Everything I said, whilst mild, is coming from the same angle as Learin, that there are different factors for women wearing the clothing they do, perhaps as an expression of their personality or other. On the other hand, it is too simplistic to assume that the sole reason women wear the clothes they do, is to send men a message. It is not.

"I think" and "In my experience" are not timid and vague. Those openings show that the individual expressing their opinion is only speaking for themselves.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For all intents and purposes all within a cohort look pretty much alike. Flappers of the Roaring 20s are distinct and apart from Gibson girls of World War I era.
 
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