A proposal for the GLBT forums

How about "cocksuckers R us" and "GLBT talk."

Stella_Omega said:

How about "cocksuckers R us" and "GLBT talk."

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In the "cocksuckers R us" forum, would there be a "but not attached to a man because I'm not gay" subforum?

I refuse to held accountable for the men ( who are not gay ) who catch their weener in the zip as they dash for the exit.
"It's a raid!"
"But I'm not gay, I'm not gay!"

Excuse me while I throw up.

It's really odd that people can think that changing things around equals Hitler or something. But they sure do!

Pretty much everything that can possibly be said has been said, yanno? Despite the sudden entrances of people who have only just heard about this, I cannot think of anything, pro or con that hasn't been discussed in this thread-- often in capslock.

Yep. I called it.

.....

One little thought/warning/whatever. I like the idea of separate forums for serious talk and so forth, Hopefully it will help. One thing I wanted to bring up, the whole thing about the guys who want to suck dick but won't admit they are gay/bi, and the focus on it, kind of concerns me. Not that I don't agree, but I think that obsessing about dicks like that, dicksucking, misses the whole point of things, and also in a GLBT forum we are trying to make serious, can be uncomfortable for some. Among other things, it gives the impression that somehow a dick defines everything, which I don't think was the point of the back and forth, but it comes off as that.

I suspect what people are getting disgusted for is that the guys saying they like to suck dick but 'aren't gay' are in effect saying there is something wrong with being bi or gay in some way, that they are saying 'no, no, I am a manly man, but I like to suck dick, but I be a manly man" and such...and I agree, it is disparaging of gays, it is as offensive to me as people who see 'dressing up' as a woman as being automatically humiliating or dehumanizing or whatever.

Here is the problem, there are gray areas with this, and it can be hurtful. For a M to F transwoman, there is a period where most of them/us will have their original genitals, for some it is lifelong because SRS is so expensive, or they medically can't do it, etc. The problem is, M to F's can be into males or females, and with a man, when you say "if a guy sucks a dick, he is of course gay or bi", that implies that the person having the dick is therefore male.......If I was living as a woman (as I pretty much did at one point in my life, more then a few years ago), and I dated a guy as a woman, I didn't see myself as a guy in a dress (these days I see myself as a woman forced to live as a guy, but whatever), as many transwoman do. I realize this is esoteric, but when they are going to bed with a guy, they are doing it as a woman, and if the guy pleasures their genitals, it may have nothing to do with being gay/bi on the guys part, and it certainly isn't to the transwoman. If you say "any time a guy sucks a dick" or "any time a guy pleasures a dick" they are gay or bi, it leaves out there is a big gray area, that M to F trans folks are not men, they aren't interacting as that, and quite honestly, there are a lot of guys who are perfetly straight who see trans women as women, treat them as such (and yeah, there are admirers who see anyone who is trans or CD as some sort of fetish object, or as a way to be bi without feeling guilty, but that is a different class of guy).

I guess what I am asking is not to obsess so much on the genitals, there is enough shit out there like that. The Michigan Womyn's music festival won't let pre-op transwomen attend and will block post op transwomen they decide don't look 'female' enough, but they let F to M transmen go there, who are fully looking like men, on T, etc..all because of their genitals. I realize this sounds trivial, but to some, it can really be a downer.....personally I don't give a shit, given what my own status is these days, but there are a lot of girls still trying to find themselves, and as unintentional as it is, it can hurt

I suspect what people are getting disgusted for is that the guys saying they like to suck dick but 'aren't gay' are in effect saying there is something wrong with being bi or gay in some way, that they are saying 'no, no, I am a manly man, but I like to suck dick, but I be a manly man" and such...and I agree, it is disparaging of gays,

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This.

it is as offensive to me as people who see 'dressing up' as a woman as being automatically humiliating or dehumanizing or whatever.

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And this.

Thank you Lauren.

posted wrong place!

Etoile said:

BTW, please do nudge me if I don't come back to this soon. Packing is really stressing me out, hah. Only 2.5 weeks left here in Japan! But I do want to give this attention.

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*nudge*


*nudge nudge*


*nudge nudge nudge*



P.S. The fuckwaffle dude asking about bisexual lesbians eating pussy DEFINITELY belongs someplace else!

Safe_Bet said:

*nudge*


*nudge nudge*


*nudge nudge nudge*



P.S. The fuckwaffle dude asking about bisexual lesbians eating pussy DEFINITELY belongs someplace else!

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I am insanely impressed by your self control there!

As a "bisexual" woman (I genuinely despise the term) I really do wish the GLBT forum did have more threads about being GLBT and less about lesbians having straight sex or men who love lesbian porn.

Honestly, being able to chat with someone who can help me discover myself and hearing the experiences other people have had in relationships and out in the world would be very helpful to me.

If I'm posting on the GLBT forum I really don't want to talk to the straight man who sucks dick sometimes but how can you really know? I'm just frustrated with it all too, I suppose.

So assuming a sub-forum in GLBT Chatter for GLBT-like fetishes, what should it be called? (I think it will get kinder reception here than in F&S.)

Stella_Omega said:

how about W4W and M4M? or how about "bi guys" and "LGBT"

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It's basically a question of 'lumping' vs 'splitting', is it not?

It seems to me that the most contentious issue here is the presence of MSM (men who have sex with men, aka 'men who like dick but aren't gay') in the GLBT forum and a perceived tendency of that group to, ah, 'become overly involved' in other threads in the category. So some sort of MSM thread might be appropriate in which guys can discuss sucking dick and other 'manly man' topics at the same time.

The biggest potential problem I see with this approach is with serious threads about trans issues as compared to the 'hawt shemale' topics. I'd expect most of the former to stay in GLBT and most of the latter to move to MSM, but there'd be some overlap and might be a tendency for the MSM to follow them back into GLBT, perhaps ultimately defeating the purpose of the split (I see that some have already gone or been moved to the Fetish & Sexuality forum, as have the majority of CD and 'sissy' threads).

Basically, people will self-select depending on the nature of their post (GLBT vs MSM), but whether or not cross-posting will be minimal is something you won't really know until you try it. If you can move, say, a quarter or a third of the existing threads out of GLBT and into a MSM forum, is that sufficent to serve its purpose?

Dyslexicea said:

Truth is I don't see the GLBT board having much of substance to keep any lesbian coming back. Mostly horny bi ladies.

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Whether or not a W4W (or 'Women with Women') forum would be worthwhile is something on which I don't feel qualified to comment, save to say that a name like that implies a bi/lesbian focus which then leaves GLBT for gay men and trans people, which seems to me counterproductive. You may as well add a separate Trans forum and everyone can discuss their common ground in this News & Issues section. I don't think it would affect the presence of bi-curious women unless you specifically call it 'Bi/Curious Women' so lesbians can stay in GLBT, but there might then be a similar relationship between it and GLBT as I've suggested there might be between MSM & GLBT.

Etoile said:

So assuming a sub-forum in GLBT Chatter for GLBT-like fetishes, what should it be called? (I think it will get kinder reception here than in F&S.)

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I'm offering my original post again, and honestly I still think it will be the most practical solution, because that's just the way it works. MSM as Haurni puts it, would have no need to look any further than the main forum, and those of us who actually have a NEED to look further- well, we are used to that and we know how to do it.

Stella_Omega said:

So, I just jumped down Wolfman's throat for his misguided version of "defense" of GLBT.

But I do agree with our "defender" that this forum is not really useful in this form. And if he's saying that the GLBT forum is a misogynistic pigsty then yeah-- it does start feeling that way with some regularity. these incessant threads about how much better women would be if they had dicks, or how much better men would be if they were women with dicks-- after awhile even the strongest stomach will revolt.

And "the Isle of Lesbos" is a single thread, and not every subject belongs in it.

I propose that the GLBT forum be renamed the Fetishists' forum. And that this section be named the GLBT forum. Let it actually be FOR the gay men, the lesbians, the transsexuals and transgendered, who need to talk about identity and sexuality, without the inane litany of "hate-men-want-cock" threads. A few threads from the current GLBT can be moved up here.

(ETA: I see one thread that has been moved here, despite the fact that it was doing pretty well "down below."
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=743996

We are a minority in the forum that has OUR name on it. Let us have an actual ghetto, instead of nothing much.

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Stella_Omega said:

I'm offering my original post again, and honestly I still think it will be the most practical solution, because that's just the way it works. MSM as Haurni puts it, would have no need to look any further than the main forum, and those of us who actually have a NEED to look further- well, we are used to that and we know how to do it.

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Whoa wait...now I'm confused.

Post 113 is where we started talking about this again. Your OP refers to creating a fetish forum. We have that. It's just that some threads get shuttled between there and here, and I've been led to understand that the vibe in F&S is not very queer-friendly.

So now we're talking about a separate GLBT-like fetishes forum, right? Not what was in the OP. The first 112 posts of this thread were sorted out by having F&S created.

What I'm looking for here is a name for a "GLBT-like fetishes" forum. Something we can present to the admins, along with the explanation for why it's needed.

I don't want to split off the T from the GLB, I don't want to split men from women. I think if we can get the GLBT-like fetishes isolated, everything else will settle into place. If it doesn't, we can address it further from there...but I'd like to start with that. I thought that's where we were, has that changed? I admit a lot went on for me in the last few weeks, but I didn't see any discussion to the contrary...did I miss something?

Excuse me for being irritated, but no-- that "Fetish and sexuality" forum was NOT what I had proposed in my first post. I asked for exactly the same thing I am asking for now. Laurel decided to do something else, and that's why I am still asking.

I don't know how to get my idea understood without all the extra stuff that people have read into it. I never meant to suggest that women should be separated from the men, if I ever did-- it's impossible and not the point.

The gist is that GLBT need and deserve a forum where our identities are respected, and not treated like a fun fair.

I don't, this morning, know how to indicate to a large and privileged group that they've appropriated a minority identity.

I suggest that we leave "GLBT chatter" and rename this subforum; "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered" spelled all the way out like that.

Or "Identity Haven" which would fly right under the radar for everyone that doesn't need it.

Anyone else?

ETA how about "Bi Guys and Gals' Chatter?" You know it will be mostly guys, but its an inclusive title.

I have tried not to present my own irritation on this issue, but it's been hard.

I have tried to please everyone, and I really don't think I can do that. As far as I know, no other moderator on Lit has to deal with this level of discontent from the members in their area. I think it's warranted, sure, but I can't please everyone. Lit may not be what each individual wants it to be. It may not be the place for some people.

It's really tempting to just resign as GLBT Chatter moderator and have you guys talk to Laurel directly. I don't get paid enough to sort this out.

I'm not saying I'm going to, but that's how this thread makes me feel. I am tired of people being angry at me because the forum isn't exactly how they want it to be.

Etoile said:

I have tried not to present my own irritation on this issue, but it's been hard.

I have tried to please everyone, and I really don't think I can do that. As far as I know, no other moderator on Lit has to deal with this level of discontent from the members in their area. I think it's warranted, sure, but I can't please everyone. Lit may not be what each individual wants it to be. It may not be the place for some people.

It's really tempting to just resign as GLBT Chatter moderator and have you guys talk to Laurel directly. I don't get paid enough to sort this out.

I'm not saying I'm going to, but that's how this thread makes me feel. I am tired of people being angry at me because the forum isn't exactly how they want it to be.

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Whoa.

How about "Bi Guys and Gals' Chatter?"

And yeah, moderating a forum that impacts lots of people's personal identity issues is going to suck.

I would moderate it, and believe it or not, I could do that fairly and equitably, simply because I am passionate about EVERYONE's right to have some self respect.

I happen to be very sure that there are better ways to arrange things to make that possible.

Stella_Omega said:

And yeah, moderating a forum that impacts lots of people's personal identity issues is going to suck.

I would moderate it, and believe it or not, I could do that fairly and equitably, simply because I am passionate about EVERYONE's right to have some self respect.

I happen to be very sure that there are better ways to arrange things to make that possible.

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Fuck off.

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgender
"Discussion of non-straight sexuality and life. Find support and friends."

Subforums:


As I understand it, MSM technically includes gay and bi men, but framing it as "who don't identify as gay" should make the distinction more pronounced (which is desireable if the intent is to minimize overlap).

So now we are celebrating MORE segregation as a step forward.

>_>