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Brexit

For Hobbit:

Free movement of people in Europe?

Kent is fed up with the French being given a free ride over illegally subsidising ferry services; allowing strikers and immigrants to block French ports causing Kent's roads to go into gridlock for months on end; and now French Air Traffic Controllers will fuck up our holiday flights.

All of that is against EU regulations. Do the French care? No they fucking don't!
 
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oggbashan said:
For Hobbit:

Free movement of people in Europe?

Kent is fed up with the French being given a free ride over illegally subsidising ferry services; allowing strikers and immigrants to block French ports causing Kent's roads to go into gridlock for months on end; and now French Air Traffic Controllers will fuck up our holiday flights.

All of that is against EU regulations. Do the French care? No they fucking don't!
Click to expand...

Will this make the French care more about the plights of Kent?
 
wow!


Scotland seeks to remain in EU, ready for new independence vote
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-idUKKCN0ZB0FH

" First Minister Nicola Sturgeon vowed on Saturday to protect Scotland's European Union membership and said a fresh independence referendum was possible after Britain voted to leave the bloc.

Scots rejected independence in the 2014 referendum by 55-45 percent.

The SNP argues Thursday's outcome changes the case for independence, and many Scots may reassess their 2014 vote. Sturgeon said on Friday a new referendum was "highly likely"."
 
miles said:
Now there are petitions calling for another vote.

Fucking fascists!
Click to expand...

Given that literally thousands of people have gone on record as regretting their vote and two of the leaders of the Leave campaign have admitted the main planks of their campaign were lies, how is that remotely equivalent to fascism?
 
hssh345 said:
wow!


Scotland seeks to remain in EU, ready for new independence vote
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-idUKKCN0ZB0FH

" First Minister Nicola Sturgeon vowed on Saturday to protect Scotland's European Union membership and said a fresh independence referendum was possible after Britain voted to leave the bloc.

Scots rejected independence in the 2014 referendum by 55-45 percent.

The SNP argues Thursday's outcome changes the case for independence, and many Scots may reassess their 2014 vote. Sturgeon said on Friday a new referendum was "highly likely"."
Click to expand...

The SNP's position is bizarre to say the least. They want independence AND to be in the EU?
 
underguy1 said:
The SNP's position is bizarre to say the least. They want independence AND to be in the EU?
Click to expand...

I thought that she was talking about independence from the UK, in order to protect Scotland's position in the EU?


Further quote:

"We will seek to enter into immediate discussions with the EU institutions and with other EU member states to explore all possible options to protect Scotland's place in the EU,"
"A second (Scottish) independence referendum is clearly an option that requires to be on the table

Scots rejected independence (from the United Kingdom) in the 2014 referendum by 55-45 percent
Sturgeon's SNP says many Scots opted against independence in 2014 because they believed that was the only way to guarantee EU membership.

But on Thursday, the United Kingdom voted overall to leave the EU, but Scots voted by 62-38 percent to remain. "
 
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I have to admit I thought it was hysterical that the top 3 searches on UK google were:

1) What does it mean to leave the EU?

2) What is the EU?

3) Which countries are in the EU?

The brits have totally lost the right to make fun of americans.
 
zipman said:
I have to admit I thought it was hysterical that the top 3 searches on UK google were:

1) What does it mean to leave the EU?

2) What is the EU?

3) Which countries are in the EU?

The brits have totally lost the right to make fun of americans.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
zipman said:
I have to admit I thought it was hysterical that the top 3 searches on UK google were:

1) What does it mean to leave the EU?

2) What is the EU?

3) Which countries are in the EU?

The brits have totally lost the right to make fun of americans.
Click to expand...

That isn't true.

Those were the top three searches related to the European Union specifically , not full the list of UK Google searches regardless of topic.

The media used misleading headlines to make it seem like those questions were the top UK Google searches over all, the goal being to reinforce the idea that the vote results were due to stupidity and must be done over. And it apparently worked, as I have seen variations on your post multiple times today. This is media manipulation at its finest. It is quite obvious that the people doing this search were never a part of the political process to being with, and woke up to doom and gloom news stories so they started searching to understand something they never considered in the first place.

attachment.php


The top UK google search in general was likely ass pics of whomever is the UK equivalent of a Kardashian.
 
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LadyFunkenstein said:
That isn't true.

Those were the top three searches related to the European Union specifically , not full the list of UK Google searches regardless of topic.

The media used misleading headlines to make it seem like those questions were the top UK Google searches over all, the goal being to reinforce the idea that the vote results were due to stupidity and must be done over. And it apparently worked, as I have seen variations on your post multiple times today. This is media manipulation at its finest. It is quite obvious that the people doing this search were never a part of the political process to being with, and woke up to doom and gloom news stories so they started searching to understand something they never considered in the first place.

attachment.php


The top UK google search in general was likely ass pics of whomever is the UK equivalent of a Kardashian.
Click to expand...

That IS the progressive way. If at first you don't get the results you want, keep doing it over until you do.

Ishmael
 
I think it's clear both sides played fast and loose with the truth, and employed scare tactics galore. Nothing unusual on this side of the Atlantic when it comes to political matters. Par for the course.
 
LadyFunkenstein said:
That isn't true.

Those were the top three searches related to the European Union specifically , not full the list of UK Google searches regardless of topic.

The media used misleading headlines to make it seem like those questions were the top UK Google searches over all, the goal being to reinforce the idea that the vote results were due to stupidity and must be done over. And it apparently worked, as I have seen variations on your post multiple times today. This is media manipulation at its finest. It is quite obvious that the people doing this search were never a part of the political process to being with, and woke up to doom and gloom news stories so they started searching to understand something they never considered in the first place.

attachment.php


The top UK google search in general was likely ass pics of whomever is the UK equivalent of a Kardashian.
Click to expand...

Actually it isn't media manipulation at all. I just misread it. It was just my error, not part of some media conspiracy theory at all.
 
This is a post on the Guardian's comment section. It's unbelievably good at the analysis of what happens next:
Teebs 15h ago
Guardian Pick

181
182
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Click to expand...
 
zipman said:
Actually it isn't media manipulation at all. I just misread it. It was just my error, not part of some media conspiracy theory at all.
Click to expand...

That you misread it isn't an accident. You aren't a stupid man, and neither are all of the other people who misread it. You misread it because you were meant to misread it. The headlines intentionally led you misread it.

No need to bring out the C word to discredit me for pointing this out.
 
hssh345 said:
I thought that she was talking about independence from the UK, in order to protect Scotland's position in the EU?


Further quote:

"We will seek to enter into immediate discussions with the EU institutions and with other EU member states to explore all possible options to protect Scotland's place in the EU,"
"A second (Scottish) independence referendum is clearly an option that requires to be on the table

Scots rejected independence (from the United Kingdom) in the 2014 referendum by 55-45 percent
Sturgeon's SNP says many Scots opted against independence in 2014 because they believed that was the only way to guarantee EU membership.

But on Thursday, the United Kingdom voted overall to leave the EU, but Scots voted by 62-38 percent to remain. "
Click to expand...

Well, being in the EU is hardly consistent with being staunchly independent.

But I never understood why they wanted to leave the UK but keep the pound either.

Makes no sense.
 
underguy1 said:
Well, being in the EU is hardly consistent with being staunchly independent.

But I never understood why they wanted to leave the UK but keep the pound either.

Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

The Scottish National Party didn't really want to be in the position they are in now. They knew that Scotland would vote to stay in the EU and campaigned for that.

But the referendum on Scottish independence from the UK was lost. The economic position of Scotland has become worse since then because of the drop in the price of oil.

What the SNP really wanted was a few years of calm so that they could build support for a Scotland independent of the UK but within the EU. They knew that would be difficult to achieve and needed time. The UK referendum came years too soon for the SNP's long term policy.

The other members of the EU have not been sympathetic to the idea of an independent Scotland becoming a new EU member. To be fair, most of those countries haven't seriously considered the possibility.
 
Clarice Feldman offers up a nice wrap of the Brexit. Here's a nice quote from the piece:

"The EU is like the Hotel California. Up to now voters across Europe have rejected the expansion of the original customs and trade treaty -- limited scope of the original European Economic Community (EEC) -- to no avail. In 1992 Denmark voted against the Maastricht Treaty and was made to vote again, In 2001 Ireland voted against the Nice Treaty and was made to vote again. In 2005 France voted against the EU Constitution and the vote was ignored. In that same year the Netherlands voted against the EU Constitution and, that, too, was ignored, In 2008 Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty and was made to vote again. In 2015 Greece voted against the EU bailout and that vote was ignored. The lesson to voters must have been obvious -- spend your life voting, or just lie back and think of Brussels -- until now."

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/06/on_brexit_just_call_me_cassandra.html#ixzz4CgJxzQYs


And true to form, we're seeing the demand to revote.

I think that you can take this article and replace EU with DC and it's at least 90% accurate. Ours could be an interesting election.
 
LadyFunkenstein said:
That you misread it isn't an accident. You aren't a stupid man, and neither are all of the other people who misread it. You misread it because you were meant to misread it. The headlines intentionally led you misread it.

No need to bring out the C word to discredit me for pointing this out.
Click to expand...

Most people understand and accept the idea that advertisers use all sorts of little tricks to influence buying behaviour.

it makes no sense to me that it's not patently obvious that it requires no grnd conspiracy for the media whether on the right and thr left to do the same. it seems like people only seem to recognize it when it's from a point of view they disagree with.

Individuals who have any sort of power in the media whether from the small such as maybe a headline writer or a columnist to the large the owners or editor who decides what's being read and how it's formatted do not use those same tactics to get their point made in a way that influences behavior that they think needs to be influenced a particular way.
 
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