Stolen Avatar Images

Let me share a little story of GB history that will point out perfectly how rules are looked at here and also how end of the day this site really does nothing but reward bad behavior.

Some here who drift into the GB off and on for awhile may have heard this, but if not gather around.

There was a long time member of the GB, infamous troll KRCummings. This poster claimed to be female(from the start,not a transgender after 7 years Freddie) but anyone who bought it was a moron, their persona screamed male.

But to people who would say that(yours truly for instance) it was, "Oh, no they're a woman. they posted pictures!" and yes they did, had their own pic thread in 2006.

No let's fast forward. KR became very close with a female poster on the GB, very close, so close that KR-who was really a man all along- decided to put the female poster in touch with her "friend"

Now the woman and the friend chat, end up meeting, they have sex. Later on she gets an irate e-mail from a woman who found her info and several explicit messages in her husbands e-mail.

Long story short he was married. All the pics he posted were of his wife obviously without her permission. Her pussy all over the site and from here who knows where and there forever.

Also this piece of shit tricked a woman into having sex with him and caused her to help him cheat on a wife she did not know existed. Once this was discovered, KR of course totally vanished and the woman from the GB posted the whole story

So this guy hopefully not only took it up the ass in divorce court, but should be serving jail time for revenge porn.

Totally despicable, but guess what?

The pic thread still exists and the only reason the original pics aren't there is KR edited them out shortly after posting them, but if you go through the thread, some were quoted. Better yet in 2012 KR was saying they lost the pics and were asking if anyone had saved them to send them to him...more likely than not that was the wife at that point

a poster "gofuckyourself' reposted 2 of them and they are still there.

Meaning laurel knows this whole story and never deleted the thread where this sack of shit flirted and talked dirty with men thinking he was a she, and the pics are still there even though its known they legally should not be.

Top it off? on a thread afterwards talking about trolls and the GB Laurel stated KR was an exemplary Troll with a

A guy who posted his wife's body all over the net without her knowledge and tricked a woman into sleeping with him not knowing he was married is a fine GB member and once again note the thread, all their posts and some pics still exist here.

That's the only example anyone needs to know here about what the site thinks of the law and common decency even.

Every rule here is a joke and enforced at whim and nothing here is ever 'wrong' and if it is? You get points for it.

That story has bothered me for awhile now and I think this was the place where it fits best, so complaining about anything here is a waste of damn time.

oggbashan said:

My avatar is me.

<---

Click to expand...

I thought it was Peter Ustinov.

rj

rjordan said:

I thought it was Peter Ustinov.

rj

Click to expand...

I always assumed it was, and gave Peter points for it.

lovecraft68 said:

Lit is not going to care until something is done legally to make them care.

Click to expand...

It's a calculated risk like any other business decision. What are they going to do? Require model releases and other documented proof for everything posted? Isn't even possible?

The best they can do is take action immediately if there is any challenge of ownership.

rj

Technically if anyone copy/pastes an image from an images search, you just stole?

lovecraft68 said:

Let me share a little story of GB history that will point out perfectly how rules are looked at here and also how end of the day this site really does nothing but reward bad behavior.

[Snipped about a 1000 word effort]

Click to expand...

Somehow I missed the part about stolen copyrighted images. Could you repost that part?

rj

sr71plt said:

That's not the law. Saying that posting a copyright image to the Internet authorizes reposting the image is a bunch of crap.

You would think that authors would be totally on the other side of this. How self-possessed can you be to want your property protected but also to want to steal everyone else's for your convenience?

Click to expand...

It's not a question of being on a side. It's a question of reality.

Long ago I was on a storytelling/roleplaing site. People created characters, and as the site allowed avatars, lots of people selected pictures of movie stars, porn stars and entertainers. A lot of the roleplay was erotic, so you had in effect Eric Bana giving blowjobs to Harrison Ford, and that sort of thing.

You'd have thought some Hollywood celeb's lawyer would have caught wind of it, and tossed a takedown order in. As far as I know it never happened.

Images posted to the internet are de facto public property, no matter what the law says.

Not so for the written word, video or music. The music industry can and does attempt to prosecute file sharing. I've done successful takedown orders when my stories get stolen. There are people in jail for pirating video. But for whatever reason, pictures get a pass.

SecondCircle said:

Technically if anyone copy/pastes an image from an images search, you just stole?

Click to expand...

If it is copyrighted, yes (which the Berne Convention says it was upon creation--although copyrights revert to the public domain at some point). And it's your responsibility to establish that it is in the public domain--or to obtain permission to publish--if you want to repost it.

In the case of my book covers used as avatars, use of the images for both the book cover and publicity for the book were purchased from the owner of the original image. The book cover then became a new, separate image, with the copyright owned by whoever put together the permissions for the images used. Me, through my publisher, in this case. Until I had images I owned to use as avatars I used none here--I didn't steal anything from anybody--and the posts posted just fine without any avatar on them.

SecondCircle said:

Technically if anyone copy/pastes an image from an images search, you just stole?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It might be intentionally in the public domain, or it may have reverted to the public domain because the copyright holder didn't enforce their copyright (and other reasons).

That's the point. You don't know what the legal status is if you are not the owner.

The law hasn't caught up to the technology on many fronts. This is just one.

rj

HandsInTheDark said:

It's not a question of being on a side. It's a question of reality.

Long ago I was on a storytelling/roleplaing site. People created characters, and as the site allowed avatars, lots of people selected pictures of movie stars, porn stars and entertainers. A lot of the roleplay was erotic, so you had in effect Eric Bana giving blowjobs to Harrison Ford, and that sort of thing.

You'd have thought some Hollywood celeb's lawyer would have caught wind of it, and tossed a takedown order in. As far as I know it never happened.

Images posted to the internet are de facto public property, no matter what the law says.

Not so for the written word, video or music. The music industry can and does attempt to prosecute file sharing. I've done successful takedown orders when my stories get stolen. There are people in jail for pirating video. But for whatever reason, pictures get a pass.

Click to expand...

Bullshit. Your "need" to steal for you convenience doesn't obviate the law and ethics, and you have no vote in the law and obviously are deficient in ethics.

You're just being sleazy and making up false excuses to do what you want.

rjordan said:

Not necessarily. It might be intentionally in the public domain, or it may have reverted to the public domain because the copyright holder didn't enforce their copyright.

That's the point. You don't know what the legal status is if you are not the owner.

The law hasn't caught up to the technology on many fronts. This is just one.

rj

Click to expand...

This is my point. The futility of it is laughable. How many pictures are on the internet? How many sites/forums are on the internet? If someone here had an avatar of SpongeBob, we should call for judicial action? Are we serious? A person should be sued for harmlessly using an avatar of a band they like? This has to happen like what, every second? And to what end? It's like suing a garage band for doing a cover of your song... in their garage where they do not profit from it.

Like, really?

If it were an actual calculated breach on someone's security and the information were used for malicious intents that gathered a shit ton of attention/money/willful hurt or slander? That I could see.

But copy/pasting Daffy fucking Duck or a random butt photo as your porn forum avatar? Seriously?

SecondCircle said:

This is my point. The futility of it is laughable. How many pictures are on the internet? How many sites/forums are on the internet? If someone here had an avatar of SpongeBob, we should call for judicial action? Are we serious? A person should be sued for harmlessly using an avatar of a band they like? This has to happen like what, every second? And to what end? It's like suing a garage band for doing a cover of your song... in their garage where they do not profit from it.

Like, really?

If it were an actual calculated breach on someone's security and the information were used for malicious intents that gathered a shit ton of attention/money/willful hurt or slander? That I could see.

But copy/pasting Daffy fucking Duck or a random butt photo as your porn forum avatar? Seriously?

Click to expand...

Speaking of laughable, I find all of the excuses for engaging, as individuals, in bad, illegal, and unethical behavior laughable.

First, you have full control over what you do. Hiding behind "everyone does it" won't make you noble or less sleazy for doing it and the excuse of "futility" doesn't change the law or the ethics and doesn't mean that individuals have to do what the selfish and inconsiderate horde decides to do.

Nor does it change the Web site's legal liability, no matter how much they want to pretend.

Second, this thread started out targeted at a specific avatar photo which most likely is that of a woman who has no idea that she pops up a couple of times a day on a pornographic site. Someone needs to have the common decency to think of her and just to force a deletion of that photo if ownership by the account name can't prove the right to slap that photo on a pornographic site.

Agree with plt.

Anyone done an image search? Apparently, you can pin down the origin of an image by doing some kind of search?

(Mine is me. It may be slightly false advertising now, as I'm a few years older and a few pounds lighter, but it's me.)

sr71plt said:

Second, this thread started out targeted at a specific avatar photo which most likely is that of a woman who has no idea that she pops up a couple of times a day on a pornographic site. Someone needs to have the common decency to think of her and just to force a deletion of that photo if ownership by the account name can't prove the right to slap that photo on a pornographic site.

Click to expand...

I read Msg #1 a couple of times and can't find any mention of a specific avatar photo. You may have the image in your head, but you haven't shared it.

I don't think you need to as you have successfully generated a decent discussion of the problem.

rj

sr71plt said:

Speaking of laughable, I find all of the excuses for engaging, as individuals, in bad, illegal, and unethical behavior laughable.

First, you have full control over what you do. Hiding behind "everyone does it" won't make you noble or less sleazy for doing it and the excuse of "futility" doesn't change the law or the ethics and doesn't mean that individuals have to do what the selfish and inconsiderate horde decides to do.

Nor does it change the Web site's legal liability, no matter how much they want to pretend.

Second, this thread started out targeted at a specific avatar photo which most likely is that of a woman who has no idea that she pops up a couple of times a day on a pornographic site. Someone needs to have the common decency to think of her and just to force a deletion of that photo if ownership by the account name can't prove the right to slap that photo on a pornographic site.

Click to expand...

Huh. I suspected as much.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1077615&page=3

This is you, right? In this thread? These were your views that you expressed on a matter of posting photos to "cyberspace", correct?

Because it seems like you've taken a different position now. Apparently if you're a celebrity, you should be realistic about what can happen when you post photos of yourself on the internet. These people are adults, right? They are old enough to understand what it means to post sensitive info on the web.

Except, in that case, the photos weren't actually uploaded to a website. They were apart of Apple's online backup software. Which was hacked and the photos were leaked. According to you, these people should have known better. Apple wasn't liable.

Ah, but now because it's an annoying forum poster, both Lit amd the Poster should be held accountable. Now because it serves to strike a blow against this person, we should definitely call for a halt to the theft of personal information on the web, eh?

It's one thing to hack an online backup service that stores phone pictures (and is supposed to be safe by its very nature). It's another to copy/paste a random ass picture off of an images search and use it as an avatar (for... no gain. Other than "malicious" internet games posted in larger font than anyone else).

I don't think this is as much about the welfare and security of the woman in the picture so much as a forum gaming swipe at another forum gamer.

SecondCircle said:

Huh. I suspected as much.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1077615&page=3

This is you, right? In this thread? These were your views that you expressed on a matter of posting photos to "cyberspace", correct?

Because it seems like you've taken a different position now. Apparently if you're a celebrity, you should be realistic about what can happen when you post photos of yourself on the internet. These people are adults, right? They are old enough to understand what it means to post sensitive info on the web.

Except, in that case, the photos weren't actually uploaded to a website. They were apart of Apple's online backup software. Which was hacked and the photos were leaked. According to you, these people should have known better. Apple wasn't liable.

Ah, but now because it's an annoying forum poster, both Lit amd the Poster should be held accountable. Now because it serves to strike a blow against this person, we should definitely call for a halt to the theft of personal information on the web, eh?

It's one thing to hack an online backup service that stores phone pictures (and is supposed to be safe by its very nature). It's another to copy/paste a random ass picture off of an images search and use it as an avatar (for... no gain. Other than "malicious" internet games posted in larger font than anyone else).

I don't think this is as much about the welfare and security of the woman in the picture so much as a forum gaming swipe at another forum gamer.

Click to expand...

All I'll say is you have no idea who that poster is and what they've done here over the 9 years they've been here in various incarnations.

Its a lot more than fancy fonts.

And all of you people originally blamed pilot for the main reason you had to build the fun house so by your logic we can question your going round and round with him on this or anything else.

Or you going to take a different position now as you say he is?

Don't bother answering, I'm not looking for a response, just putting a relevant fact out there.

rjordan said:

I read Msg #1 a couple of times and can't find any mention of a specific avatar photo. You may have the image in your head, but you haven't shared it.

I don't think you need to as you have successfully generated a decent discussion of the problem.

rj

Click to expand...

I'm addressing the avatar of Freddie/"Susan" specifically. That's not Freddie's picture. I think everyone with half a brain knows that. And they also know he's stolen it from some unsuspecting person. He has no boundaries of what he'll do/say on the forum. I didn't realize I wasn't being clear (but maybe if I had been, this thread would have died a quick death).

SecondCircle said:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1077615&page=3

This is you, right? In this thread? These were your views that you expressed on a matter of posting photos to "cyberspace", correct?

Because it seems like you've taken a different position now. Apparently if you're a celebrity, you should be realistic about what can happen when you post photos of yourself on the internet. These people are adults, right? They are old enough to understand what it means to post sensitive info on the web.

Click to expand...

You're just going to keep wriggling around this until you can feel that you are being honest and ethical about stealing someone else's intellectual property, aren't you? Sorry, it isn't going to happen.

On this point, the laws protecting celebrities in this regard and private citizens are different and are much more restrictive for private citizens. Freddie's/"Susan's" avatar isn't of any celebrity I can identify. If you can, than speak up. Otherwise the assumption is that that is a private citizen's image being slapped on a pornographic Web site without knowledge or permission. What is the common decency thing to do about that? What is the legal thing to do about that? What is the ethical thing to do about that? What is Literotica going to do about that?

lovecraft68 said:

All I'll say is you have no idea who that poster is and what they've done here over the 9 years they've been here in various incarnations.

Its a lot more than fancy fonts.

And all of you people originally blamed pilot for the main reason you had to build the fun house so by your logic we can question your going round and round with him on this or anything else.

Or you going to take a different position now as you say he is?

Don't bother answering, I'm not looking for a response, just putting a relevant fact out there.

Click to expand...

I'm taking a different position?

SecondCircle said:

Exceptions would be where sensitive data like pictures is supposed to be safeguarded. Such as someone's private profile behind passwords online. This would mean a hacker would have to actively bypass security measures in place and "steal" them. As is done to celebrities pretty regularly.

Click to expand...

That's from my first post in this thread. I STILL don't agree with this type of behavior.

And again, is anyone bringing this up because of the welfare of the woman in that photo? Doubtful. It's probably a shot at another poster.

With changing positions in mind, isn't this the same thing you used to do to Pilot regularly? Like, for years? He's not really a spy this, he's not really a broadway singer that? Now it's okay for him to persue someone across the boards in the same manner?

I don't really care about the validity or truths behind this poster or anyone else for that matter. It's stupid. They crave attention and you feed it to them while telling others to do the opposite. When someone mentions writing though, we should stop talking about it and "just do it"? So if I have this straight we should talk less about writing but start endless threads catering to the attention of trolls?

In what fucking world does this make sense?

A person can be against online theft of nude pictures on a private secure platform, but bitch about copy pasting a face pic to a "who in the fuck cares" profile on a random ass forum?

The admin said it. We could broach topics of writing and constructive discussion, and pay attention to the topics that are fun and worth our time, or continue to make the forum about outlandish idiotic trolls and keep their game going. That's up to us.

SecondCircle said:

And again, is anyone bringing this up because of the welfare of the woman in that photo? Doubtful. It's probably a shot at another poster.

Click to expand...

I bring it up because of the shit Freddie claims happened to him as the woman in that photo. As I posted, Freddie recognizes no bounds in what he'll put in a post (currently posing as that woman in the photo). Abused by a father and four brothers, for instance. The account isn't of a real person, but I'll bet that photo is of a real person.

And on the photo, in earlier account names, Freddie used the photos of men as his avatar. Was he lying then or is he lying now--or were all of the photos stolen photos of people who have no clue that they were used to represent the person who posted the vile claims Freddie has posted as that person?

sr71plt said:

You're just going to keep wriggling around this until you can feel that you are being honest and ethical about stealing someone else's intellectual property, aren't you? Sorry, it isn't going to happen.

On this point, the laws protecting celebrities in this regard and private citizens are different and are much more restrictive for private citizens. Freddie's/"Susan's" avatar isn't of any celebrity I can identify. If you can, than speak up. Otherwise the assumption is that that is a private citizen's image being slapped on a pornographic Web site without knowledge or permission. What is the common decency thing to do about that? What is the legal thing to do about that? What is the ethical thing to do about that? What is Literotica going to do about that?

Click to expand...

The laws are different for celebrities how? Those were private photos, taken on a private phone. Nude photos. The safeguard that was supposed to protect that (and all other data) was actively persued and hacked. That's not legal for celebs or regular citizens. These weren't Hunger Games poster photos or celebs out to dinner. This was their private information.

And you said in the thread I attatched that it wasn't a matter of being celebrity or not, it was about having the common sense of posting things to the internet.

Who is wriggling exactly?

Why act concerned all the sudden? This is just more trolling shit. You didn't take this up out of some sense of altruism. If you're going to come down on this false photo on this forum, then take a stand for the thousands that are left, man. People post fake pictures of themselves on the internet all the time. People make up bullshit stories about their life on online profiles every second. But now that it's an itch you want scratched, it should take absolute precedence?

sr71plt said:

Bullshit. Your "need" to steal for you convenience doesn't obviate the law and ethics, and you have no vote in the law and obviously are deficient in ethics.

You're just being sleazy and making up false excuses to do what you want.

Click to expand...

If you'll notice, I don't have an avatar here. Any images associated with my Lit account are my own creation, and so I own (and reserve) all rights. I didn't have an avatar on the roleplay site either; I got by entirely on writing skill.

In other words you've done my least favorite thing, making an accusation you have no basis for. We get a lot of that around here.

Unlike a number of people here (and online in general), not every word I write is some elaborate self-justification. I'm often writing about something I've observed or found to be true, and my words don't always indicate how I feel about what I've observed. I know that seems incomprehensible, but I take a certain joy in reporting the facts as I see them, good or bad, and seeing how other people see them.

People online steal images and it appears to be a consequence-free action; that's observable fact. The fact that you don't like it, or it's illegal, changes nothing. Please feel free to castigate everyone here who has an avatar they didn't create. I mean, LadyVer has something that probably belongs to Disney; Naoko has a cat that also looks like Disney property; LC might find that Arkham House takes a really dim view of use of anything derived from HPLovecraft's writing. Other examples exist. Meanwhile, folk showing pictures of themselves, real or purported, are breaking Lit's own rules. Avatars are just a bad idea.

You might have the only valid avatar on the site. Congratulations.

sr71plt said:

I bring it up because of the shit Freddie claims happened to him as the woman in that photo. As I posted, Freddie recognizes no bounds in what he'll put in a post (currently posing as that woman in the photo). Abused by a father and four brothers, for instance. The account isn't of a real person, but I'll bet that photo is of a real person.

And on the photo, in earlier account names, Freddie used the photos of men as his avatar. Was he lying then or is he lying now--or were all of the photos stolen photos of people who have no clue that they were used to represent the person who posted the vile claims Freddie has posted as that person?

Click to expand...

A poster's nefarious claims, delusions, and negative comments?

Again, you're aware you're on the internet? If lies, racial slurs, sexist slurs, berating, insulting, and downright horrid comments are enough to prosecute them, you realize that about 80% of the internet should be locked up? And I'm willing to bet that a fair percentage of them have copyright infringement style avatars (or fake pics of their hot bods).

SecondCircle said:

Again, you're aware you're on the internet? If lies, racial slurs, sexist slurs, berating, insulting, and downright horrid comments are enough to prosecute them, you realize that about 80% of the internet should be locked up?

Click to expand...

Yes, please.

Lock those away, take away the copyright infringements, and we'd have a nice, small, fast internet made of largely useful content.

(And while I'm ordering, I'd like World Peace on the side.)

HandsInTheDark said:

Yes, please.

Lock those away, take away the copyright infringements, and we'd have a nice, small, fast internet made of largely useful content.

(And while I'm ordering, I'd like World Peace on the side.)

Click to expand...

<looks in pockets>

I'm out of world peace. I still have some "Religious Understanding" left? Or I know a guy that can FedEx you some "End Poverty"?