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FAWC 5: Line, Please!

F5: Desperate Times and Measures

Spoi . . . ah, you know the drill by now.

I want to point out that the original title of this story was Desperate Times, Desperate Measures, but it wouldn't fit. So I had to get a little creative with the title.

While introspective pieces like this do tend to be long, I felt this one dragged out too often. There were big chunks of narrative, and some long trails of dialogue that seemed to repeat themselves over and over. I couldn't help but gloss over some of them, looking for key words instead of reading every single one. I don't like doing that when reading a story.

But, the story itself was an interesting look at a man who had attempted to kill his wife's perceived lover, then escaped to Belize. The internal struggles, the self-loathing, all the things you would expect from a man in such a situation were all there. While the telling of it was often flat, there's only so much a writer can do to spruce up such a depressing state of affairs.

I thought Sandra came off as too eager to come back. Not many women would want to be with a man who had tried to kill someone else based on supposition. But she came back crawling, and more, she put up with Dan having sex in the bedroom with another woman while she sat on the porch. I couldn't find much to like about Dan after that scene. He came close to redeeming himself by the end, however.

I guess for the LW crowd, this would be a pleaser because Dan remained the macho husband throughout the story, with the women in his life jumping up and down to get his attention and cater to his needs. There is, I know, a large segment of readers who love stories like this, and I'm not knocking them. Everyone has their preferences. But this story didn't exactly pull at my heart strings or make me cheer for anyone.

Desperate did, however, do an excellent job of getting into Dan's head. Some of the narrative may have been tedious, but it illustrated the pain, anger, frustration and desire to find reason a man in that situation would feel. Kudos for that.

I liked how the items on the table were repeatedly used, however. There was a strong sense of poignancy when they were mentioned, and they were used well. It wasn't a requirement for the challenge that the objects even be used, but that they played a central part in the story showed that this story had been built -- in part -- around them.

It was a good story, but I feel it could have been shorter.
 
slyc_willie said:
F5: Desperate Times and Measures

Spoi . . . ah, you know the drill by now.

I want to point out that the original title of this story was Desperate Times, Desperate Measures, but it wouldn't fit. So I had to get a little creative with the title.

While introspective pieces like this do tend to be long, I felt this one dragged out too often. There were big chunks of narrative, and some long trails of dialogue that seemed to repeat themselves over and over. I couldn't help but gloss over some of them, looking for key words instead of reading every single one. I don't like doing that when reading a story.

But, the story itself was an interesting look at a man who had attempted to kill his wife's perceived lover, then escaped to Belize. The internal struggles, the self-loathing, all the things you would expect from a man in such a situation were all there. While the telling of it was often flat, there's only so much a writer can do to spruce up such a depressing state of affairs.

I thought Sandra came off as too eager to come back. Not many women would want to be with a man who had tried to kill someone else based on supposition. But she came back crawling, and more, she put up with Dan having sex in the bedroom with another woman while she sat on the porch. I couldn't find much to like about Dan after that scene. He came close to redeeming himself by the end, however.

I guess for the LW crowd, this would be a pleaser because Dan remained the macho husband throughout the story, with the women in his life jumping up and down to get his attention and cater to his needs. There is, I know, a large segment of readers who love stories like this, and I'm not knocking them. Everyone has their preferences. But this story didn't exactly pull at my heart strings or make me cheer for anyone.

Desperate did, however, do an excellent job of getting into Dan's head. Some of the narrative may have been tedious, but it illustrated the pain, anger, frustration and desire to find reason a man in that situation would feel. Kudos for that.

I liked how the items on the table were repeatedly used, however. There was a strong sense of poignancy when they were mentioned, and they were used well. It wasn't a requirement for the challenge that the objects even be used, but that they played a central part in the story showed that this story had been built -- in part -- around them.

It was a good story, but I feel it could have been shorter.
Click to expand...

You're up late. No. Wait. That's me. Different time zone. :D
 
I've made a significant dent in reading the stories and commenting. There has been a lot of creativity with what people did with the opening line, which is what makes this exercise so interesting. Some writers barely used the items, if at all.

What I did find odd was the comments left on a couple of the stories by someone, probably the same person. They took issue with those that didn't build the story around the three items, as if the authors didn't perform the exercise correctly. The only requirement was to use the line to open the story. In fact, in an early post in the thread, slyc even suggested that they could be thrown out the window, so long as the first line was in place.

I'd say it sounds as if someone is a little pissy because they didn't think of it. It's okay to color outside the lines, kids. Kudos to those authors that did.

Now...lemme see if I can get a few more read!
 
Swilly said:
I've made a significant dent in reading the stories and commenting. There has been a lot of creativity with what people did with the opening line, which is what makes this exercise so interesting. Some writers barely used the items, if at all.

What I did find odd was the comments left on a couple of the stories by someone, probably the same person. They took issue with those that didn't build the story around the three items, as if the authors didn't perform the exercise correctly. The only requirement was to use the line to open the story. In fact, in an early post in the thread, slyc even suggested that they could be thrown out the window, so long as the first line was in place.

I'd say it sounds as if someone is a little pissy because they didn't think of it. It's okay to color outside the lines, kids. Kudos to those authors that did.

Now...lemme see if I can get a few more read!
Click to expand...

Yeah I've noticed the same. The line after all is literally just a starting line.

I personally have given nods to those that took the objects and incorporated them in this way or that, but I try to remind myself that they aren't even needed in the central story.

Wish I had as big a dent as you. Off to read.
 
I think of not using the three items in a more integrated way in the story as a Chekhov's gun issue more than a failing of the story prompt. It's fine to completely ignore those three items in your story, but you have to do enough to clear them off the table to make the first line fit as a first line.
 
stlgoddessfreya said:
I think of not using the three items in a more integrated way in the story as a Chekhov's gun issue more than a failing of the story prompt. It's fine to completely ignore those three items in your story, but you have to do enough to clear them off the table to make the first line fit as a first line.
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
Making a little progress now with the stories. Still a lot left but I'm enjoying myself. I don't really have a process like starting from the top or bottom of the list, or shortest/longest first or score or anything. I'm just throwing darts and reading at random (which is ruining my computer and devices).

I think that next I'll....

Oh? <looks around> There's nobody here.
 
Open Endings

There have been a lot of stories in this FAWC ending with different degrees of things left intentionally unresolved. It didn't seem like that was as common a characteristic in the last crop of FAWC stories. Anyone have any theories on that? Is it because of the different pool of writers? More entries? Because the beginning had to be so certain?

Personally I think it's something about the mysterious nature of the items in the prompt themselves, in the same way many of the stories have had fantastical settings or elements. Anyone else have an opinion? When do the open endings work, when do they not?
 
Why should authors get high creative marks for not using the given elements in creative and well-integrated ways? I think it's a little dumb not to take them as important enough in the exercise to make full use of them. So, yes, I can clearly see downgrading for not doing so. They are central to the exercise. What else is the exercise about?
 
sr71plt said:
Why should authors get high creative marks for not using the given elements in creative and well-integrated ways? I think it's a little dumb not to take them as important enough in the exercise to make full use of them. So, yes, I can clearly see downgrading for not doing so. They are central to the exercise. What else is the exercise about?
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
stlgoddessfreya said:
There have been a lot of stories in this FAWC ending with different degrees of things left intentionally unresolved. It didn't seem like that was as common a characteristic in the last crop of FAWC stories. Anyone have any theories on that? Is it because of the different pool of writers? More entries? Because the beginning had to be so certain?

Personally I think it's something about the mysterious nature of the items in the prompt themselves, in the same way many of the stories have had fantastical settings or elements. Anyone else have an opinion? When do the open endings work, when do they not?
Click to expand...

The items are lame.
 
stlgoddessfreya said:
There have been a lot of stories in this FAWC ending with different degrees of things left intentionally unresolved. It didn't seem like that was as common a characteristic in the last crop of FAWC stories. Anyone have any theories on that? Is it because of the different pool of writers? More entries? Because the beginning had to be so certain?

Personally I think it's something about the mysterious nature of the items in the prompt themselves, in the same way many of the stories have had fantastical settings or elements. Anyone else have an opinion? When do the open endings work, when do they not?
Click to expand...

"No resolution" is a legitimate ending for a story delivering the message that the characters can't get out of their rut. And a "could be resolved a couple of ways" is a legitimate ending for a story that is enlisting the reader in speculating possible outcomes.

But I agree with you on a couple of the stories this time. They either just ended (with commenters wondering if a page was dropped) short of anything, or they spent time with a buildup to initiate sex and ended with the orgasm without bothering to wrap up the story, or they seemed to wrap an exercising-responsive sort of story around an already written sex scene.

Don't know why this was so. It might more closely represent the general file than previous FAWCs have, though, and just be a function of the larger participation.

Or maybe it's a function of the other issue just now being discussed--"so, who cares that the elements of the exercise were provided? Just throw them in somewhere and write a story that doesn't have much to do with them--and then complain when some commenter gauges the stories against the use of the exercise elements."

Maybe if we bother to have parameters on exercise elements, we should be told from the top that they are important to the exercise? I wouldn't have thought we'd have to be told that . . . but . . .
 
sr71plt said:
Why should authors get high creative marks for not using the given elements in creative and well-integrated ways? I think it's a little dumb not to take them as important enough in the exercise to make full use of them. So, yes, I can clearly see downgrading for not doing so. They are central to the exercise. What else is the exercise about?
Click to expand...
Of course, not using them may be creative in and of itself. Not everyone uses the same color marker. One might actually need a sense of humor to understand that, which is why it doesn't resonate with some. I'm sure the author expected as much
 
sr71plt said:
"No resolution" is a legitimate ending for a story delivering the message that the characters can't get out of their rut. And a "could be resolved a couple of ways" is a legitimate ending for a story that is enlisting the reader in speculating possible outcomes.

But I agree with you on a couple of the stories this time. They either just ended (with commenters wondering if a page was dropped) short of anything, or they spent time with a buildup to initiate sex and ended with the orgasm without bothering to wrap up the story, or they seemed to wrap an exercising-responsive sort of story around an already written sex scene.

Don't know why this was so. It might more closely represent the general file than previous FAWCs have, though, and just be a function of the larger participation.

Or maybe it's a function of the other issue just now being discussed--"so, who cares that the elements of the exercise were provided? Just throw them in somewhere and write a story that doesn't have much to do with them--and then complain when some commenter gauges the stories against the use of the exercise elements."

Maybe if we bother to have parameters on exercise elements, we should be told from the top that they are important to the exercise? I wouldn't have thought we'd have to be told that . . . but . . .
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think for many, myself included, the ever-present creep of Nude Day and deadlines may have crunched some endings, or even scrapped a story altogether.
 
AMoveableBeast said:
Honestly, I think for many, myself included, the ever-present creep of Nude Day and deadlines may have crunched some endings, or even scrapped a story altogether.
Click to expand...

I second that opinion -too little time....for some, anyway.
 
AMoveableBeast said:
Honestly, I think for many, myself included, the ever-present creep of Nude Day and deadlines may have crunched some endings, or even scrapped a story altogether.
Click to expand...

I can see that with writers who still have a lot of responsibilities to others going in their lives. For both contests, I felt the lead-up time dragged and that there was a long wait after I'd finished with my writing. If I felt I didn't have time to put the ending on something that I wanted, I probably wouldn't drop the work in the submission pile. I can see how the desire to be part of the exercise could invite doing so, however.
 
Swilly said:
Of course, not using them may be creative in and of itself. Not everyone uses the same color marker. One might actually need a sense of humor to understand that, which is why it doesn't resonate with some. I'm sure the author expected as much
Click to expand...

This is very true, and in those cases where people went maverick in a creative and fun way, I was suitably impressed. "Empire" comes to mind. That story--I still think it's a story regardless of what others think, just a sly one--turns the prompt on its head a bit. Kudos to the writer. Way to buck the system in a creative way.

But others simply turned their backs, and that wins no points with me. Shoehorning the items into the narrative in an inorganic way is not as impressive as building one around them. In the best of the stories, the items seem like they belong, as if the authors had fully-formed, realized stories that just happened to include those items in a real, integral way. In the weaker ones, they seemed sprinkled on top, like Parmesan on spaghetti.
 
stlgoddessfreya said:
There have been a lot of stories in this FAWC ending with different degrees of things left intentionally unresolved. It didn't seem like that was as common a characteristic in the last crop of FAWC stories. Anyone have any theories on that? Is it because of the different pool of writers? More entries? Because the beginning had to be so certain?

Personally I think it's something about the mysterious nature of the items in the prompt themselves, in the same way many of the stories have had fantastical settings or elements. Anyone else have an opinion? When do the open endings work, when do they not?
Click to expand...

I think you've got the right of it. It was a little bit of randomness I think, but the line did instill that tiny fraction of "mystery" and may have pointed some stories in that direction.
 
sr71plt said:
I can see that with writers who still have a lot of responsibilities to others going in their lives. For both contests, I felt the lead-up time dragged and that there was a long wait after I'd finished with my writing. If I felt I didn't have time to put the ending on something that I wanted, I probably wouldn't drop the work in the submission pile. I can see how the desire to be part of the exercise could invite doing so, however.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of you when I wrote that, and your seemingly endless supply of stories and your ability to crank them out so proficiently. You get a lot of flak on here for various things, and not nearly enough credit for that ability.

At the end of the day, you can write four quality stories for every one of mine. That's impressive. I am envious of your productivity. Some part of your makeup--whether it is your work ethic, your organization, your finger speed, or your quickness of thought--is obviously superior to mine.
 
AMoveableBeast said:
This is very true, and in those cases where people went maverick in a creative and fun way, I was suitably impressed. "Empire" comes to mind. That story--I still think it's a story regardless of what others think, just a sly one--turns the prompt on its head a bit. Kudos to the writer. Way to buck the system in a creative way.
Click to expand...

"Empire" responded to the exercise setup in a highly creative, "oh, shit, I wished I'd thought of that" way. It went maverick within the parameters of the exercise. It didn't just pay lip service to there being exercise parameters. "Cooking" had the same effect on me. We're in an exercise of a group of writers and the authors, the one of "Empire" especially, incorporated the writer's experience/reality. Both would have won bravos from me, though, if as well as what they did, they doubled up on the elements by incorporating them in the overarching story in a clever way too.

(So, anyone who is doing a matrix, you can mark me off on those two. I didn't write either. Do I hear erasers going over not being the author of "Cooking"?)
 
sr71plt said:
"Empire" responded to the exercise setup in a highly creative, "oh, shit, I wished I'd thought of that" way. It went maverick within the parameters of the exercise. It didn't just pay lip service to there being exercise parameters. "Cooking" had the same effect on me. We're in an exercise of a group of writers and the authors, the one of "Empire" especially, incorporated the writer's experience/reality. Both would have won bravos from me, though, if as well as what they did, they doubled up on the elements by incorporating them in the overarching story in a clever way too.

(So, anyone who is doing a matrix, you can mark me off on those two. I didn't write either. Do I hear erasers going over not being the author of "Cooking"?)
Click to expand...

I had you for "Cooking". I'm not afraid to admit it.
 
AMoveableBeast said:
I was thinking of you when I wrote that, and your seemingly endless supply of stories and your ability to crank them out so proficiently. You get a lot of flak on here for various things, and not nearly enough credit for that ability.

At the end of the day, you can write four quality stories for every one of mine. That's impressive. I am envious of your productivity. Some part of your makeup--whether it is your work ethic, your organization, your finger speed, or your quickness of thought--is obviously superior to mine.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You're brave for posting that to this forum.

I think it might be what many others could do too, if they were given the leisure time I am. I do nothing but write, edit, read, plan trips (don't even do much of the logistics in filling out the plans), and appear at the dinner table at the ring of the bell. I worked my ass off in two careers and literally laid my life on the line to get the big bucks--knowing that if I survived I'd be rewarded with this time just to do as I damn well pleased--which is exercising my imagination and writing (and reading and traveling).
 
Perhaps if one thinks deeper, they'd realize the elements have meaning without direct mention. Maybe youre right about the lack of creative thought.
 
AMoveableBeast said:
I had you for "Cooking". I'm not afraid to admit it.
Click to expand...

I did edit it. And when I saw it, I thought, "Oh, shit, my story has already been one upped."

I also thought, more happily, that everyone would think I wrote it as it's in my wheelhouse--without noticing, I guess, that most of what I've submitted to FAWC has been out of my wheelhouse. I take FAWC as a writing challenge, not a chance to win something--other than a stretch of writing ability and risk. (And the matrix researchers could take that as a hint of what I did write this time.)
 
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