Anyone here believe America'd be doing better now, if McCain had won in 2008?

mercury14 said:

It's not a matter of belief. You're the one who "believes". I think and I use objective analysis to back what I'm saying. I've already linked the assessment of the stimulus' impact from every one of the big private sector macroeconomic players, the Fed, and the CBO.

If I link them all again will you change your mind? *laughs* No, you'll stick with Fox News hype.

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you keep adding comments in and making incorrect assumptions.... 5M people have dropped off the rolls... continued cut backs...failing infrastructure... i don't see where the improvement is coming from.. hoping the cyclical economy and european situation will improve... but not optimistic now... interest rates lowest ever...nothing you have said is objective... you are just trolling.

subtle_Dom said:

you keep adding comments in and making incorrect assumptions.... 5M people have dropped off the rolls... continued cut backs...failing infrastructure... i don't see where the improvement is coming from.. hoping the cyclical economy and european situation will improve... but not optimistic now... interest rates lowest ever...nothing you have said is objective... you are just trolling.

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I referred you to the private sector's, the Fed's, and the CBO's own assessment of the stimulus (which I have source-linked on this forum on several occasions. Your accusation that those aren't objective sources is pure comedy.

OMFG MERCURY IS A TROLL BECAUSE HE BACKED HIS ARGUMENT WITH FACTS doesn't make you seem very intelligent. Especially when you can't come up with a single source to back your position.

This thread is pointless. It's a 'what if' question on par with "Do you think Lincoln could have beaten Washington at bowling?"

mercury14 said:

I referred you to the private sector's, the Fed's, and the CBO's own assessment of the stimulus (which I have source-linked on this forum on several occasions. Your accusation that those aren't objective sources is pure comedy.

OMFG MERCURY IS A TROLL BECAUSE HE BACKED HIS ARGUMENT WITH FACTS doesn't make you seem very intelligent. Especially when you can't come up with a single source to back your position.

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no a troll because of your personal attacks and i didn't see any quotes of facts just lists of organizations and reference to a report that is widely noted for its flaws by both sides of the aisle. If i missed your source links i apologize on that aspect but have to laugh about taking jabs at intelligence, political alignment etc... very presumptuous and not good form if you are trying to have an intelligent discussion.

.. quotes from cnn money today

"The stimulus was poorly designed and didn't get the bang for the buck we could have gotten," Penner said.
penner is former director of the congressional budget office.

"Obama's had a couple of good months, but keep in mind this has happened a few times over the last couple years," Bosworth said. "I think people are getting too excited."

the economy is cyclical so the fact that we have not improved over the term is scary... if Greece fails we are all screwed.. That is not on obama, as a lot of the economy is not.. but the stimulus did nowhere near enough..3 months ago they were calling it a failure, so a good month and people are trumpeting its success... we are no better off than 3 years ago.. 5M people off the rolls so unemployment has actually gone up when that is factored in.

I am really sorry i got involved in this conversation.. you can have the floor, enough said...

subtle_Dom said:

no a troll because of your personal attacks and i didn't see any quotes of facts just lists of organizations and reference to a report that is widely noted for its flaws by both sides of the aisle. If i missed your source links i apologize on that aspect but have to laugh about taking jabs at intelligence, political alignment etc... very presumptuous and not good form if you are trying to have an intelligent discussion.

.. quotes from cnn money today

"The stimulus was poorly designed and didn't get the bang for the buck we could have gotten," Penner said.
penner is former director of the congressional budget office.

"Obama's had a couple of good months, but keep in mind this has happened a few times over the last couple years," Bosworth said. "I think people are getting too excited."

the economy is cyclical so the fact that we have not improved over the term is scary... if Greece fails we are all screwed.. That is not on obama, as a lot of the economy is not.. but the stimulus did nowhere near enough..3 months ago they were calling it a failure, so a good month and people are trumpeting its success... we are no better off than 3 years ago.. 5M people off the rolls so unemployment has actually gone up when that is factored in.

I am really sorry i got involved in this conversation.. you can have the floor, enough said...

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No you don't understand. I don't doubt that there are individuals out there who conclude that the stimulus didn't do anything. Most anti-stimulus folks as your quotes demonstrate will readily admit that it did have an impact but that they would have changed something about it.

But what I'm talking about is on a whole other level than the isolated college professors or independent analysts conservatives like to refer to. I'm talking about economic firms which have a scope of resources and analytical tools beyond what any individual or small group may posses.

And then there's the issue of cherry picking data. Moody's, IHS/Global Insight, JP Morgan Chase, and Macroeconomic advisors are the four private sector analytics giants; they unanimously cite that the stimulus saved between 1.5 million and 4 million jobs and boosted GDP markedly at a critical time . And you will NEVER hear their reports cited on Fox News or else where in the conservative media. Furthermore, zero major analytical firms endorse the notion that the stimulus had little or no impact.

What you will hear in your media is interview after interview with isolated individuals who tell the story conservatives want to hear. They're not affiliated with any objective analytical entity (LolHeritage Foundation) and usually have no training in macroeconomics.

You're free to get your information from any source you wish and of course you can believe what you choose to believe. But you simply cannot say that the consensus of independent analysis concludes that the stimulus was ineffective.

but I bet you more democrats are wishing they voted for Hillary! obama is a shit of a president

KingOrfeo said:

Does anyone here seriously believe that? Anybody? Why?

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and get ready for the obama supporters part 2 attack. since the obama is such a piece of shit president the only thing these ass-whipes democrats can do is call you a raciest for not supporting a federal socialist nut job

but hey, as long as they get entitlements democrats are good!

long live the entitlement state

subtle_Dom said:

no a troll because of your personal attacks and i didn't see any quotes of facts just lists of organizations and reference to a report that is widely noted for its flaws by both sides of the aisle. If i missed your source links i apologize on that aspect but have to laugh about taking jabs at intelligence, political alignment etc... very presumptuous and not good form if you are trying to have an intelligent discussion.

.. quotes from cnn money today

"The stimulus was poorly designed and didn't get the bang for the buck we could have gotten," Penner said.
penner is former director of the congressional budget office.

"Obama's had a couple of good months, but keep in mind this has happened a few times over the last couple years," Bosworth said. "I think people are getting too excited."

the economy is cyclical so the fact that we have not improved over the term is scary... if Greece fails we are all screwed.. That is not on obama, as a lot of the economy is not.. but the stimulus did nowhere near enough..3 months ago they were calling it a failure, so a good month and people are trumpeting its success... we are no better off than 3 years ago.. 5M people off the rolls so unemployment has actually gone up when that is factored in.

I am really sorry i got involved in this conversation.. you can have the floor, enough said...

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vetteman said:

McCain is on his way to Egypt to diffuse the crisis there and free our citizens. Maybe they'll take his dumb ass hostage too.

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Too bad he didn't take you along as his rent boy. He could trade you for a can of corn to the muslim brotherhood.

richard_daily said:

Too bad he didn't take you along as his rent boy. He could trade you for a can of corn to the muslim brotherhood.

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all at least you will be on your sofa, smoking your camels while sitting on your ass

vetteman said:

Yes Trixie, we know...

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There's very little you know, so I doubt it.

vetteman said:

I carry the weight of what I know on my shoulders sonny, and it's heavy, but different from the "load" you present.

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Yeah, I get it, being in the closet must be a VERY heavy burden for you.

vetteman said:

Yes, we know Chihuahua, we know.

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It took you THAT long to come up with that pathetic shit?

Grampa, you should hang it up for the night, you're starting to slur...

vetteman said:

You gotta understand your place on the list of my priorities, as painful for you as that might be.

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it's pretty clear that you don't have any priorities... other than the occasional tryst as a boy toy.

I clicked on this figuring it was a 2-year old thread some Obama-hater had kick-started back to life. Imagine my surprise that it's brand new.
Isn't the more appropriate question: Is there any possible way McCain could have fucked up as bad as Obama has?

vetteman said:

Yes, we know, Chihuahua.

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The sign of complete veteman meltdown and admission of defeat has now occurred.

Thank you, and good night.

Ham Murabi said:

I clicked on this figuring it was a 2-year old thread some Obama-hater had kick-started back to life. Imagine my surprise that it's brand new.
Isn't the more appropriate question: Is there any possible way McCain could have fucked up as bad as Obama has?

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vetteman said:

Short answer? No.

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So who are you two idiots voting for?

Ham Murabi said:

I clicked on this figuring it was a 2-year old thread some Obama-hater had kick-started back to life. Imagine my surprise that it's brand new.
Isn't the more appropriate question: Is there any possible way McCain could have fucked up as bad as Obama has?

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By miles and miles. And its likely he would have accomplished some of Obama's accomplishments.