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What The Fuck is wrong with our economy?

JAMESBJOHNSON said:
Cuz money is cheap paper with almost zero material value. What you suggest is entirely gambling. The manipulation of worthless paper.

Do this: Setup shop on a desert island. Bring along a pack of paper, printing press, and poker chips. Print all the paper into dollars. When alll is said and done you wont be an iota better off.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what would you suggest be used for currency? Gold, silver, platinum? Gold is better used as an industrial metal than currency. Most computers have half a pound of gold in them. Even gold can be devalued the Spanish did it quite well after their supply of gold ran dry.

To help this economy, we did need stimulus what we got instead was research grants.
 
I'm curious about why some people seem to think that personal debt has nothing to do with National debt?
 
The US economy growth figures, current and projected, show that the US is in far better shape than the Eurozone countries.

If the US government reduces spending on the military and makes the tax system more balanced so that those who earn more pay more - the US's debt crisis would erode away. It will take time but will happen.

That ain't the case in Greece.
 
Sean Renaud said:
Because it doesn't.
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How is your personal debt underwritten?
From where does the money come that funds your debt?
And here's the kicker - where does the money come from that underwrites your debt to your bank/lender? And where does THAT money come from?
And so on and so on.
 
heather_baby said:
Is it just me, or has our economy gone to shit, so to speak?

Why is it that we live in such a greedy, self serving world? I know it's not only the US out there that's experiencing harsh times and a major depression. But can we really blame it ALL on the president?

High gas prices, raised taxes, poor housing capabilities, stores and private businesses being closed and turned over to the government; all effects of our economy. Even the new health care plan trying to be passed.

Is it really smart to turn things like our social security over to the government?

Aren't they the reason for all of this in the first place?

The way I see it, I think that our Democracy is being slowly but surely being turned into a communist/dictatorship.

Hell even some of our rights are being overlooked!

But do we do anything about it? Why do we sit on our assess and let the government throw is into turmoil? Our self greed? Laziness? Lack of will? Or is simply a level of scaredness?

How can we sit back and watch it happen?

I think that the president is just as much at fault as we the people are. We were fucked long before Obama came into play.

But don't get me wrong, he's done a major part on screwing us over that much more.

Anyway, these things were just on my mind. Wanted to see how others felt as well.

_Heather_
:rose::rose::rose:
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It was outsourced to Asia.
 
TexasWife25 said:
If we're talking the pipeline specifically
IF its not done right the 1st time, not only will we
fuck up the environment, but the government will lose
more then the pipeline would ever make us in cleaning up, rebuilding
and reparations to all the people and farmers who are directly effected by the spill

Im not against progress, hell Im not even against the pipeline
Im against rushing into things without thought.
Click to expand...


The pipeline was studied for three years already, this is pure political theatre. Obama needs the Anti Big Oil group in the next election, they hate our Oilsand, they envision a world without oil. If Obama had approved another pipeline(when North America is literally crisscrossed with them) he would have lost support of the Environmental Lobby.

These people have no problem buying oil from Venezuela, Saudi Arabia etc, but the Oilsands are ugly and are the enemy. The vast majority of emissions that come from any oil comes out the tailpipe of your car, the lightest sweetest crude in the world that's where 92% of the emissions come from , 8% from production, refining and shipping. Canadian oilsand, the "dirtiest oil on the planet" 12% of the emissions come from production, refining and shipping, 88% from the tailpipe of your car.

It's a scam.
 
The economy problem in western nations, North America, Europe and Japan is simple, they got way to leveraged, first by consumers living on debt, when the housing bubble burst first in the Japan, then the US, then Europe means consumers can't borrow anymore. Then the economies started to slow, resulting in slower govt revenue and recession.

The standard answer by Western govts to a recession has been to stimulate teh economy with spending. Now the governments also need to de-leverage.

Best case scenario is a combination of spending cuts including benefits, and some tax increases to close the gap.


In Canada, we did this in the early 90's.
 
heather_baby said:
Is it just me, or has our economy gone to shit, so to speak?

Why is it that we live in such a greedy, self serving world? I know it's not only the US out there that's experiencing harsh times and a major depression. But can we really blame it ALL on the president?

High gas prices, raised taxes, poor housing capabilities, stores and private businesses being closed and turned over to the government; all effects of our economy. Even the new health care plan trying to be passed.

Is it really smart to turn things like our social security over to the government?

Aren't they the reason for all of this in the first place?

The way I see it, I think that our Democracy is being slowly but surely being turned into a communist/dictatorship.

Hell even some of our rights are being overlooked!

But do we do anything about it? Why do we sit on our assess and let the government throw is into turmoil? Our self greed? Laziness? Lack of will? Or is simply a level of scaredness?

How can we sit back and watch it happen?

I think that the president is just as much at fault as we the people are. We were fucked long before Obama came into play.

But don't get me wrong, he's done a major part on screwing us over that much more.

Anyway, these things were just on my mind. Wanted to see how others felt as well.

_Heather_
:rose::rose::rose:
Click to expand...

Obama fucked it up for us.
 
albertaboy said:
It's a scam.
Click to expand...

Its called politics in polite company

I 100% believe part of it is a big song and dance
of course it is, it was a song and dance for the republicans
who for forced the issue and its a song and dance by Obama.


But I prefer to err on the side of caution
Obama did as his advisers suggested
it was a smart move on his part.
 
albertaboy said:
The economy problem in western nations, North America, Europe and Japan is simple, they got way to leveraged, first by consumers living on debt, when the housing bubble burst first in the Japan, then the US, then Europe means consumers can't borrow anymore. Then the economies started to slow, resulting in slower govt revenue and recession.

The standard answer by Western govts to a recession has been to stimulate teh economy with spending. Now the governments also need to de-leverage.

Best case scenario is a combination of spending cuts including benefits, and some tax increases to close the gap.


In Canada, we did this in the early 90's.
Click to expand...

Nobody here believes that consumers and their debt-ridden lifestyles could possibly have anything to do with national debt.
 
warrior queen said:
I'm curious about why some people seem to think that personal debt has nothing to do with National debt?
Click to expand...

what I love, is how people defend National debt as its no big deal. clearly many people on GB are delusional either on the wrong meds or not taking their meds
 
The problem with this economy is that I'm not getting the bonuses to which I was previously accustomed.
 
islandman said:
The problem with this economy is that I'm not getting the bonuses to which I was previously accustomed.
Click to expand...

true, and with so many people unemployed contact rates are dropping as more people are needed cash they undercut everyone
 
Johnny_Ray_Wilson said:
I thought it was obvious. How does the US get out of debt? I was looking at the bottom line of how badly in debt the US is. I no longer care how we got there. We are beyond that point now. I DO know the average citizen damn sure did not put the US into debt.

I want someone, somewhere to explain to ME why the fuck we owe so much money to foreign nationals? I know that I did not borrow the money or make any pledges to support someone else's sorry ass. :mad:

Sorry post back so harshly JS, but I am truly upset.
Click to expand...

Okay, Johnny Ray, here you go. This is going to be an awfully simple overview, because I'm not a numbers guy either. But it's a start, and hopefully I'm not steering you wrong.

When all you hear about the budget is "cutting spending and/or raising taxes" over and over, it's because the government really has no other options. Look at the following chart. It's from 2008, but these percentages don't change very much. Ninety-six percent of all federal revenue is from taxes. Over 81% is from personal income and payroll taxes, and keep in mind that the payroll taxes are specifically allocated to Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare -- what are more commonly known as "mandated expenditures."

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/images/Numbers_Figure-1_What-are-fed-govts-sources-of-revenue_3.gif


The point is, the overwhelming source of government revenue is what we levy upon ourselves through our duly elected Congressional representatives. The government doesn't produce a product for profit. We can't go out and hold a garage sale.

The following graph shows the general spending side of the equation. Again, the percentages don't change that much although the dollar amounts represented by each slice of the pie are all but out of control.

The mandated entitlement expenditures (Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare) are exactly as described. The recipients are entitled to receive payments according to qualification formulas mandated by law. Until Congress manages to grow the steel testicles needed to cut these benefits, they'll keep raising taxes in small increments while "borrowing" the money to pay for the rest.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/images/Numbers_Figure-1_How-does-fed-govt-spend-money_1.gif

Compared to mandated expenditures, the discretionary side of the coin is a piece of cake. We basically spend what we collect in discretionary revenues. Of course, we usually run a deficit here as well, but it's not as if we have to. What is important to understand is that when we talk about cutting government spending, this is where the cuts MUST come from. You can't cut non-discretionary expenditures without amending the laws by which those expenditures are mandated (yeah, I said that only moments ago, but it's worth repeating).

Finally, we come to the interest on the national debt. That 8% shown on the spending chart is what it costs us each year to "borrow" the money that we use to cover the budgeted shortfall of revenues to expenses. But it's not as if we fill out a loan application and send it over to the Chinese embassy.

What we do is sell interest bearing government bonds and treasury notes. And people buy them. And we pay the principal plus interest when they mature. Contrary to popular myth, China does not "own" us. They do own most of the foreign debt holdings, but last time I looked that total foreign ownership was below 35%.

The good news is that most of the debt holders are......us. "Us" being individual Americans, corporate pension plans and the Federal Reserve, and, of course, the Fed is who the United States government really borrows from.

I say this is the good news, but you don't have to be a paranoid 9/11 truther to feel a little bit anxious about what might happen to a debt obligation when it's all held in the family so to speak. If you ever need a little leniency in paying it back, who are you going to look to first. If you want to draw an analogy with that $500 your Dad basically wrote off on that faded AMC Gremlin you bought to go off to college, well, yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm implying might be in our future with our Uncle Sam. Only it would be us forgiving part of that bond interest he owes to each of us.

It hasn't happened yet, and he'll make every effort not to "go there," if for no other reason than what it will mean for his credit worthiness internationally. Fewer people would buy his bonds and he would probably have to offer a higher interest rate for those that did. Which only helps him dig a deeper debt hole.

Anyway, that's the best I can do for ya at this point. As to how to truly fix this putrid pile of shit, I have absolutely no clue, but here is the link to the Tax Policy Center if you want to confuse yourself even more than I have.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/expenses.cfm
 
Last edited:
we are getting to the place where we MUST trim the "Mandatory" spending and the size and pay for government workers.







Colonel Hogan said:
Okay, Johnny Ray, here you go. This is going to be an awfully simple overview, because I'm not a numbers guy either. But it's a start, and hopefully I'm not steering you wrong.

When all you hear about the budget is "cutting spending and/or raising taxes" over and over, it's because the government really has no other options. Look at the following chart. It's from 2008, but these percentages don't change very much. Ninety-six percent of all federal revenue is from taxes. Over 81% is from personal income and payroll taxes, and keep in mind that the payroll taxes are specifically allocated to Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare -- what are more commonly known as "mandated expenditures."

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/images/Numbers_Figure-1_What-are-fed-govts-sources-of-revenue_3.gif


The point is, the overwhelming source of government revenue is what we levy upon ourselves through our duly elected Congressional representatives. The government doesn't produce a product for profit. We can't go out and hold a garage sale.

The following graph shows the general spending side of the equation. Again, the percentages don't change that much although the dollar amounts represented by each slice of the pie are all but out of control.

The mandated entitlement expenditures (Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare) are exactly as described. The recipients are entitled to receive payments according to qualification formulas mandated by law. Until Congress manages to grow the steel testicles needed to cut these benefits, they'll keep raising taxes in small increments while "borrowing" the money to pay for the rest.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/images/Numbers_Figure-1_How-does-fed-govt-spend-money_1.gif

Compared to mandated expenditures, the discretionary side of the coin is a piece of cake. We basically spend what we collect in discretionary revenues. Of course, we usually run a deficit here as well, but it's not as if we have to. What is important to understand is that when we talk about cutting government spending, this is where the cuts MUST come from. You can't cut non-discretionary revenues without amending the laws by which those expenditures are mandated.

Finally, we come to the interest on the national debt. That 8% shown on the spending chart is what it costs us each year to "borrow" the money that we use to cover the budgeted shortfall of revenues to expenses. But it's not as if we fill out a loan application and send it over to the Chinese embassy.

What we do is sell interest bearing government bonds and treasury notes. And people buy them. And we pay the principal plus interest when they mature. Contrary to popular myth, China does not "own" us. They do own most of the foreign debt holdings, but last time I looked that total foreign ownership was below 35%.

The good news is that most of the debt holders are......us. "Us" being individual Americans, corporate pension plans and the Federal Reserve, and, of course, the Fed is who the United States government really borrows from.

I say this is the good news, but you don't have to be a paranoid 9/11 truther to feel a little bit anxious about what might happen to a debt obligation when it's all held in the family so to speak. If you ever need a little leniency in paying it back, who are you going to look to first. If you want to draw an analogy with that $500 your Dad basically wrote off on that faded AMC Gremlin you bought to go off to college, well, yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm implying might be in our future with our Uncle Sam. Only it would be us forgiving part of that bond interest he owes to each of us.

It hasn't happened yet, and he'll make every effort not to "go there," if for no other reason than what it will mean for his credit worthiness internationally. Fewer people would buy his bonds and he would probably have to offer a higher interest rate for those that did. Which only helps him dig a deeper debt hole.

Anyway, that's the best I can do for ya at this point. As to how to truly fix this putrid pile of shit, I have absolutely no clue, but here is the link to the Tax Policy Center if you want to confuse yourself even more than I have.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/expenses.cfm
Click to expand...
 
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