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video of US Troops Shooting journalists in Baghdad

blunt_trauma said:
you're a helpful fucker, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Let me put it this way. If my soldiers had behaved the way American troops do in Iraq and Afghan, and if my superiors had behaved the way American officers behave, I would be standing beside L/Cpl Glenton.

Without a truly free press we would not be made aware of the actions carried out in our name.

If we do not protest it loudly we are no better than the Germans who seek to whitewash their complicity in the NAZI flirtation.

We should withdraw immediately rather than be complicit in the wrong doing theat is becoming the norm.
 
An unfortunate incident of war. My only question is during WWII it was ok to fire bomb most of the industrialized cities in Germany and Japan and not to mention the devistation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing hundreds of thousands of inocent civilians without a protest being mentioned but when a reporter or civilian get killed in a war zone the Americans are now called murderers. Sad
 
torchthebitch said:
Let me put it this way. If my soldiers had behaved the way American troops do in Iraq and Afghan, and if my superiors had behaved the way American officers behave, I would be standing beside L/Cpl Glenton.

Without a truly free press we would not be made aware of the actions carried out in our name.

If we do not protest it loudly we are no better than the Germans who seek to whitewash their complicity in the NAZI flirtation.

We should withdraw immediately rather than be complicit in the wrong doing theat is becoming the norm.
Click to expand...

i know this.
but it still bears repeating.
 
koalabear said:
Watch it again, you obviously are not very observant.
Click to expand...


Ok, I saw, in my defence I did switch to a conversation window a couple times, must have missed that during one of those moments.. Though the W/O didnt state it for another 30 seconds or so, right on the section where the guy is looking round the wall with his camera clearly in view, hence me saying what I said.
 
bob2100 said:
An unfortunate incident of war. My only question is during WWII it was ok to fire bomb most of the industrialized cities in Germany and Japan and not to mention the devistation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing hundreds of thousands of inocent civilians without a protest being mentioned but when a reporter or civilian get killed in a war zone the Americans are now called murderers. Sad
Click to expand...

Yes. It was. The weapon systems were different, and the civilian populace was mobilised in support of the industrial/military complex. Further, the Allied targetting of the cities had a sound military purpose within the inherent inaccuracy of the weapon systems. V1s were being produced at a rate of one every five or ten minutes, and V2s at the rate of one every few hours, despite the bombing campaign. Had they been able to develop their weapon systems the first SLBMs would have been deployed against the US, possibly with biological or chemical weapons. A submarine launch system had already been designed.

Terror bombing was a German tactic, and despite the "honourable" epithet attached to the Wehrmacht, the Heer used slaughter of civilians as a means of control of the populations in occupied territories.
 
torchthebitch said:
Let me put it this way. If my soldiers had behaved the way American troops do in Iraq and Afghan, and if my superiors had behaved the way American officers behave, I would be standing beside L/Cpl Glenton.

Without a truly free press we would not be made aware of the actions carried out in our name.

If we do not protest it loudly we are no better than the Germans who seek to whitewash their complicity in the NAZI flirtation.

We should withdraw immediately rather than be complicit in the wrong doing theat is becoming the norm.
Click to expand...

ALL American troops? ALL American officers? I ask because that is what you just implied. Do you (and Kybele) have the ability and willingness to distinguish between soldiers who do battle and kill enemy combatants "honorably" versus those who make regrettable but honest mistakes that result in inadvertent casualties versus those who are truly criminal and who intentionally step outside the legitimate rules of war in order to commit murder?

Or do you take advantage of videos like that in the OP to paint all American military with the same broad brush loaded with you particularly favorite color?

This nation has seemed more than willing and capable of investigating and prosecuting individuals engaged in questionable conduct. Abu Gahib and Haditha are two incidences that immediately come to mind. Furthermore, guerilla wars or wars of insurgency where one or both sides do not wear standard uniforms and insignia drastically increase the probability of collateral damage and the deaths of innocents.

Meanwhile, the very nature of war is evidenced by a stomach-turning brutality when everything goes RIGHT and enemies only kill each other. Is there ever an equation in your mind where the greater social good is justified and served by unleashing that degree of brutality on a particularly identified evil?

If so, would your cause be less just by virtue of the occurrence of collateral casualties or even the deplorable criminal acts of a minority who are supposedly fighting in its behalf?

"Wrong doing that is becoming the NORM? Really? You have detailed evidence of that or is it just a catchy phrase that expresses your world view?
 
mark197205 said:
Ok, I saw, in my defence I did switch to a conversation window a couple times, must have missed that during one of those moments.. Though the W/O didnt state it for another 30 seconds or so, right on the section where the guy is looking round the wall with his camera clearly in view, hence me saying what I said.
Click to expand...

^^^either cybering whilst posting politics,
or posting politics mid-cyber.

tut tut tut
 
mark197205 said:
Ok, I saw, in my defence I did switch to a conversation window a couple times, must have missed that during one of those moments.. Though the W/O didnt state it for another 30 seconds or so, right on the section where the guy is looking round the wall with his camera clearly in view, hence me saying what I said.
Click to expand...

As the journalist goes out of view, watch the gun-sight. You will see a group of men gather there, 2 with rifles, one with an RPG. It shows up best at 3:45 in the vid, when the guy turns to talk to the other guy in the striped shirt. To bad the Journalist got killed, he is just one of 139 other Journalists that have been killed on that war.
 
koalabear said:
As the journalist goes out of view, watch the gun-sight. You will see a group of men gather there, 2 with rifles, one with an RPG. It shows up best at 3:45 in the vid, when the guy turns to talk to the other guy in the striped shirt. To bad the Journalist got killed, he is just one of 139 other Journalists that have been killed on that war.
Click to expand...

Yep. Good eye. I'm not sure I see the RPG, but the rifles are unmistakable.
 
blunt_trauma said:
^^^either cybering whilst posting politics,
or posting politics mid-cyber.

tut tut tut
Click to expand...


Cyber? please, more like an adult conversation between two friends..
Cyber hasnt done much for me in a long time.. Dammit..:rolleyes:
 
Colonel Hogan said:
ALL American troops? ALL American officers? I ask because that is what you just implied. Do you (and Kybele) have the ability and willingness to distinguish between soldiers who do battle and kill enemy combatants "honorably" versus those who make regrettable but honest mistakes that result in inadvertent casualties versus those who are truly criminal and who intentionally step outside the legitimate rules of war in order to commit murder?
Click to expand...

Our rules of engagement held the individual accountable for pulling the trigger or launching the missile. Your system makes the individual liable to command. This erodes the soldiers ability to apply his own judgement, with the result that he stops thinking for himself. This is one of the things that McChrystal has recognised, and has sought to correct. The mechanisation of war predicted in much science fiction is coming into being.

In straightforward encounter warfare American ground troops fight as honourably as any. It is at the machine level and the elite level that problems are arising and percolating down to infect the rest of the armed forces.

British troops are starting to show similar disassociation.
 
koalabear said:
As the journalist goes out of view, watch the gun-sight. You will see a group of men gather there, 2 with rifles, one with an RPG. It shows up best at 3:45 in the vid, when the guy turns to talk to the other guy in the striped shirt. To bad the Journalist got killed, he is just one of 139 other Journalists that have been killed on that war.
Click to expand...



Yep, I saw something long and straight, not sure it was an RPG as I saw no handgrip/trigger assembly but that might have been down to angle etc.. I definitely saw AK's being carried, but could they not have been locals hired to protect the journo's from getting kidnapped, or the journo was shadowing a local militia group for a story.
 
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