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Why don't you want HealthCare (medical insurance) reform?

Government expansion is causing concern to the many citizens who are beginning to catch on to the fact that the U.S. Congress looks on our economic decline as little more than an opportunity to vastly increase the size of government and the scope of their own political spoils system. Every bad idea in the last forty years for feathering their political nests is being trotted out in the name of stimulating the economy.

Tea parties and town hall meetings are not the only signs of public discontent. There are more substantial cultural indicators. One of the most remarkable is the rapidly rising sales of Ayn Rand's 1957 novel Atlas Shrugged.
In 2008 more copies of that novel were sold than in any year in its 52-year history. And more copies were sold in the first half of 2009 than in all of 2008.

Why are hundreds of thousands of people suddenly reading a serious, intellectual, eleven-hundred-page novel written half a century ago? Perhaps it is because events in Washington, D.C. are disconcertingly developing like the plot of Atlas Shrugged. Not least among these events is the push for government control over health care.

The proposed public insurance "option" to create competition for insurance companies by imposing $100 billion in fees on them is reminiscent of the novel's Directive 10-289, the government decree that imposed an endless list of mutually exclusive requirements with criminal penalties on all aspects of the economy. From Congress we now hear that government insurance is good because it provides "competition," but any of the pitiful few private alternatives to Medicare must be obliterated to fund it. For some reason the wonders of competition must be forbidden for Medicare. Such reasoning should remind us of Directive 10-289.

...

A minor character in Atlas Shrugged, Dr. Hendricks, stated in stark terms what Americans will eventually face if the concept of individualism is divorced from medical care: "Let them discover the kind of doctors their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and their hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their life in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe if he is the sort who doesn't."
Click to expand...

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/ss_politics0692_09_01.asp
 
Frisco_Slug_Esq said:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/ss_politics0692_09_01.asp
Click to expand...

Dr. Hendricks, stated in stark terms what Americans will eventually face if the concept of individualism is divorced from medical care: "Let them discover the kind of doctors their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and their hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their life in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe if he is the sort who doesn't."

what the fuck ??

you would hope that someone who becomes a doctor does it because he wants to help others
not because he wants to make a lot of money ??!!??
 
iceburg1 said:
Dr. Hendricks, stated in stark terms what Americans will eventually face if the concept of individualism is divorced from medical care: "Let them discover the kind of doctors their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and their hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their life in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe if he is the sort who doesn't."

what the fuck ??

you would hope that someone who becomes a doctor does it because he wants to help others
not because he wants to make a lot of money ??!!??
Click to expand...

What does he think when he is given diagnosis guidelines which he must follow to get paid?

What need do we have for doctors?

Turn him into a technician with a diagnostic flow-chart and you save a lot of money.

You mention money, Rand was speaking in terms of spirit and freedom from tyranny...
 
Frisco_Slug_Esq said:
What does he think when he is given diagnosis guidelines which he must follow to get paid?

What need do we have for doctors?

Turn him into a technician with a diagnostic flow-chart and you save a lot of money.

You mention money, Rand was speaking in terms of spirit and freedom from tyranny...
Click to expand...

your first line mentions money

as far as diagnostics go
this is what most doctors/technicians do

you have a sniffly nose and a temperature >> flu

if persistent go back to your GP
 
When the government lose 23 trillion dollars of tax payers' money into thin air, and begin to rationning care for the people, something is fucked up.
 
I am not against Health Care Reform. Not being in lock-step with the Obamites and their huge healthcare propaganda machine - does not make one against their goal of insuring everyone.

I am against adding to the already existing Government run health care programs. We already have $1.5 trillion in annual government run health care programs. Isn't there a way to make those work?

I am against the "no pre-existing conditions" as a disqualifier for being accepted for insurance, the only purpose of this clause, is to bankrupt private insurance and make a "national health" the only remaining option.

I am against a national health program that is not strictly limited to citizens and legal immigrants. We do not need to have the world's sick pouring into America for free health care or "lower cost health" subsidised by tax payers.

I am against forcing people by law to purchase health insurance. We're supposed to be a nation of individual choice and individual rights.

I am against health care reform without Tort Reform. The democrats (and many republicans) are owned by trial lawyers and dare not anger their single largest donor. I see no big call for assisting doctors with their malpractice premiums in this legislation, just demands for them to drop their prices.

And I am against the blatant attempt to push through ANY health reform in the first two years of the Obama administration - out of the obvious fear that he won't have a friendly congress after 2010. Why not try something, like actually thinking it out and doing it right? The health crisis has been here since the beginning of time - it does not have to be fixed with a poorly thought out bill in two years. As with any giant government plan - once we have it, it is eternal. Perhaps they should begin an eternal program with more thought?

No instead, let's just pass bills and yell from the rooftops that, "WE, The Democratic Party - Gave you Health Care!"
 
SAILOR954 said:
PINKSTARFISH,,

For me,, it's simple,, just look around,, the economy is a wreck, the dollar is falling, the nation is on the verge of bankruptcy,,, the list goes on.

No matter how good,, or bad, the current bill is,,,, the one thing we all know is that it's well over a TRILLION dollars.

And we don't have the money. As it stands right now,, we will never live long enough (no matter how old you are) to see the day we dig our way out from under the mountain of debt that has been created in just the last 9 months or so.
Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you, but you weren't going to live long enough to see yourself dig your way out of the OLD debt that was already there to begin with.

But it was okay not to think about that as long as the gravy train of fake wealth was still moving and kept the good times rolling, eh?
 
Frisco_Slug_Esq said:
Of course we are.

You can sue insurance companies and you can change insurance companies.

As Hayek puts it, it is better for society if the ills that befall them come at the hands of third parties rather than at the hands of government for one is shrugged off as Fortuna (Machiavelli's word) while the latter is looked at as tyranny...
Click to expand...

And your health care will still be paid for by insurance companies, regulated and watched over by the federal government to be sure that they aren't dumping people from their roles or refusing to insure some because they're too ill or have a "pre-existing condition".

One day you're going to learn to think for yourself rather than make constant appeals to what you feel are authority figures. I won't hold my breath though.
 
IrezumiKiss said:
I hate to break it to you, but you weren't going to live long enough to see yourself dig your way out of the OLD debt that was already there to begin with.

But it was okay not to think about that as long as the gravy train of fake wealth was still moving and kept the good times rolling, eh?
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that sense we're already in dept we should go in further?
 
kbate said:
I am not against Health Care Reform. Not being in lock-step with the Obamites and their huge healthcare propaganda machine - does not make one against their goal of insuring everyone.

I am against adding to the already existing Government run health care programs. We already have $1.5 trillion in annual government run health care programs. Isn't there a way to make those work?

I am against the "no pre-existing conditions" as a disqualifier for being accepted for insurance, the only purpose of this clause, is to bankrupt private insurance and make a "national health" the only remaining option.

I am against a national health program that is not strictly limited to citizens and legal immigrants. We do not need to have the world's sick pouring into America for free health care or "lower cost health" subsidised by tax payers.

I am against forcing people by law to purchase health insurance. We're supposed to be a nation of individual choice and individual rights.

I am against health care reform without Tort Reform. The democrats (and many republicans) are owned by trial lawyers and dare not anger their single largest donor. I see no big call for assisting doctors with their malpractice premiums in this legislation, just demands for them to drop their prices.

And I am against the blatant attempt to push through ANY health reform in the first two years of the Obama administration - out of the obvious fear that he won't have a friendly congress after 2010. Why not try something, like actually thinking it out and doing it right? The health crisis has been here since the beginning of time - it does not have to be fixed with a poorly thought out bill in two years. As with any giant government plan - once we have it, it is eternal. Perhaps they should begin an eternal program with more thought?

No instead, let's just pass bills and yell from the rooftops that, "WE, The Democratic Party - Gave you Health Care!"
Click to expand...

Really well put. Thank you kbate.
 
kbate said:
I am not against Health Care Reform. Not being in lock-step with the Obamites and their huge healthcare propaganda machine - does not make one against their goal of insuring everyone.

I am against adding to the already existing Government run health care programs. We already have $1.5 trillion in annual government run health care programs. Isn't there a way to make those work?

I am against the "no pre-existing conditions" as a disqualifier for being accepted for insurance, the only purpose of this clause, is to bankrupt private insurance and make a "national health" the only remaining option.

I am against a national health program that is not strictly limited to citizens and legal immigrants. We do not need to have the world's sick pouring into America for free health care or "lower cost health" subsidised by tax payers.

I am against forcing people by law to purchase health insurance. We're supposed to be a nation of individual choice and individual rights.

I am against health care reform without Tort Reform. The democrats (and many republicans) are owned by trial lawyers and dare not anger their single largest donor. I see no big call for assisting doctors with their malpractice premiums in this legislation, just demands for them to drop their prices.

And I am against the blatant attempt to push through ANY health reform in the first two years of the Obama administration - out of the obvious fear that he won't have a friendly congress after 2010. Why not try something, like actually thinking it out and doing it right? The health crisis has been here since the beginning of time - it does not have to be fixed with a poorly thought out bill in two years. As with any giant government plan - once we have it, it is eternal. Perhaps they should begin an eternal program with more thought?

No instead, let's just pass bills and yell from the rooftops that, "WE, The Democratic Party - Gave you Health Care!"
Click to expand...

I didn't have time to read this until now. It's very good.
 
I don't venture in here that often and you can rip me appart later but:

islandman said:
The economy isn't other people's responsibility. It's Obama's,
Click to expand...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/takes a deep breath

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!!

And you wonder why your enconomy is in so much shit?!?

"It's not my problem, it's the governments! Let them worry about everything! But don't tax me for it!! oh hell no!! I need that money to go into my healthcare preimiums.

Which... keep going up. So I have less money to put into the economy, but that's not my problem...."

God, I love it, thank you. Haven't had a laugh like that all week.
 
Brave Maximus said:
I don't venture in here that often and you can rip me appart later but:



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/takes a deep breath

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!!

And you wonder why your enconomy is in so much shit?!?

"It's not my problem, it's the governments! Let them worry about everything! But don't tax me for it!! oh hell no!! I need that money to go into my healthcare preimiums.

Which... keep going up. So I have less money to put into the economy, but that's not my problem...."

God, I love it, thank you. Haven't had a laugh like that all week.
Click to expand...


You're welcome, though I will say you will find my post more insightful once you're able to distinguish between 'others' and 'mine'.
 
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