Something turned for me this thursday & my switchy/toppy part needs feedback...

I feel like my switchy side just went topsy-turvey, topsy-turvey...

OK, this is the 3rd time i've tried to post this, still working to find the words...

I've only ever played with people I've known well before. Except for one co-topping experience, I've never topped anyone who was truly submissive vs. switch before. Until Thursday night. He was submissive. The yielding... It put me almost immediately into top space in a way I'd never felt previously - the power exchange was incredible. Things just flowed - somehow, I knew when to push, when to hold back, when to change toys and rythms, just how far to go without ever pushing him over the edge. It might have been the chemistry but I also think it had something to do with who we both are at our core. He is much more experienced in BDSM, so I felt gratified when I learned that he described his experience in much the same way from a sub point of view to a friend. We are going to play again. It took me 3 hours to get to sleep after I got home I felt so high and it is almost all I've been able to think about since.

The next night I went to a demonstration on teasing and torture - perhaps in 10 - 12 years from now, I might have half the skill of the presenter, lol. It was interesting - I recognized so much of my own play style in the instructor that it was easy to imagining myself doing the same things she did during her demonstration (even, to my surprise, some of the very extremely sadistic things that she did during a play piercing scene). I mention this because not once did I picture myself bottoming. I met two women this weekend from my CL posting - one switch, one Domme - when I tried to imagine myself bottoming to either of them, I couldn't.

When I bottom, I greatly enjoy obeying and pleasing my top - but I am almost never able to submit. The one time I did and went deeply into subspace, I really focused on seeing myself in submission during a ritual before the play; two days later went into such debilitating subdrop that I was pretty much dysfunctional for half a week. One of the only things that really helped me through was the support I got from people on this board. I know that the drop wasn't the result of an endorphin crash - one could call me a pain slut- I'd certainly gotten much more bruised before without experiencing same. A friend and mentor of mine suggested that the subdrop was so intense because that is not "where I live."

Why am I writing this? I'm not sure, perhaps because I like the idea of being a switch but am beginning to think that I am more top than I'd initially thought or even have been willing to admit. At the same time, I cannot imagine myself ever being dominant in a 24/7 relationship. I really do like the egalitarian quality of my relationship with my SO outside of the bedroom...

Wondering if any of my experiences make sense? I've heard some people describe reaching a point where they "can't go back," but not so much in terms of their role. I remember a couple of switch folk on this board with more experience than I mention that they take on a role in response to that of their primary partner. For those who switch and have been in the scene longer and aren't in a relationship or are in a relationship with a switch, do you usually go back and forth, or do you go through long periods when you end up wanting to stay in one role more than the other? And do you flip back again? Ok, i know I'm going on, so I'll just leave it here, i think.

Thanks ahead of time for any perspectives / advice / feedback.

Neon

Neon the way you express yourself is breathtaking at times. I have no pearls of wisdom except to say trust in yourself . You may need to reconcile titles , personal truth should be spared such labor , embrace it .

I remember what you spoke of going through when you dropped last time. Even in that chaos you were magnificent.

Just sayun

I think in part I can relate to what you are saying. I know from my own experiences of topping at F's command, I had entirely different experiences both during and after which was totally about the person I was topping. Topping someone who was very submissive was far more rewarding and comfortable, not to mention relaxed and easy to read and flow with it, than those who were more into bottoming only. I find the more I talk with male subs, the more I make a connection to those who are focused on submitting. I can have fun with those who are focused on what delightful things might get done to them that they want, but it doesn't give me the same feeling as someone who wants to submit in all ways. It used to confuse me, now I just tend to enjoy it for the experience and see what the future holds. I love reading about the steps you take in your own journey.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/376824463_35ca304946_s.jpg Catalina

@}-}rebecca---- said:

Neon the way you express yourself is breathtaking at times. I have no pearls of wisdom except to say trust in yourself . You may need to reconcile titles , personal truth should be spared such labor , embrace it .

I remember what you spoke of going through when you dropped last time. Even in that chaos you were magnificent.

Just sayun

Click to expand...

neonflux said:

Thanks ahead of time for any perspectives / advice / feedback.

Click to expand...

I don't have experience as a switch and therefore don't have any advice to offer. Just a couple of observations.

First, regarding your debilitating "subdrop" experience, I'll note that there are many submissives who neither enjoy nor have a need for public play and/or humiliation/degradation. Some have very, very low tolerance for these types of experiences.

But that doesn't make them any less submissive, right? It does not mean they should avoid D/s relationships or BDSM in general. It just means that there are some types of partners for whom these submissives are not well suited, and some types of scenes to which they really should not be subjected.

I assume there's an analogy here for switches.

Second, regarding this:

neonflux said:

For those who switch and have been in the scene longer and aren't in a relationship or are in a relationship with a switch, do you usually go back and forth, or do you go through long periods when you end up wanting to stay in one role more than the other? And do you flip back again?

Click to expand...

My observation is that most people who thrive on Topping, but have also previously experienced bottoming and enjoyed it - that is, enjoyed both the sensations as well as the "obeying and pleasing my top" - do go back and forth, though the intervals between may sometimes last months or even years.

The ones who switch back & forth most frequently seem to be the true sensation junkies. For some, it becomes a real my turn/your turn kind of thing.

catalina_francisco said:

I think in part I can relate to what you are saying. I know from my own experiences of topping at F's command, I had entirely different experiences both during and after which was totally about the person I was topping. Topping someone who was very submissive was far more rewarding and comfortable, not to mention relaxed and easy to read and flow with it, than those who were more into bottoming only. I find the more I talk with male subs, the more I make a connection to those who are focused on submitting. I can have fun with those who are focused on what delightful things might get done to them that they want, but it doesn't give me the same feeling as someone who wants to submit in all ways. It used to confuse me, now I just tend to enjoy it for the experience and see what the future holds. I love reading about the steps you take in your own journey.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/376824463_35ca304946_s.jpg Catalina

Click to expand...

Thank you for replying, Catalina. It is so interesting reading your experiences about topping. The fact that your enjoyment of same takes nothing away from your sense of being submissive is reassuring. Although I still don't know where I will end up - life and where it takes you is funny that way - I never anticipated falling in love and moving in with a man, anymore than I anticipated this!

JMohegan said:

I don't have experience as a switch and therefore don't have any advice to offer. Just a couple of observations.

First, regarding your debilitating "subdrop" experience, I'll note that there are many submissives who neither enjoy nor have a need for public play and/or humiliation/degradation. Some have very, very low tolerance for these types of experiences.

But that doesn't make them any less submissive, right? It does not mean they should avoid D/s relationships or BDSM in general. It just means that there are some types of partners for whom these submissives are not well suited, and some types of scenes to which they really should not be subjected.

I assume there's an analogy here for switches.

Second, regarding this:
My observation is that most people who thrive on Topping, but have also previously experienced bottoming and enjoyed it - that is, enjoyed both the sensations as well as the "obeying and pleasing my top" - do go back and forth, though the intervals between may sometimes last months or even years.

The ones who switch back & forth most frequently seem to be the true sensation junkies. For some, it becomes a real my turn/your turn kind of thing.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this, especially the last observation. Perhaps I sometimes overthink things but there is an intensity of experience here, in "that thing we do" that seems to stimulate same. I love the sense of history and deep experience you bring to the boards.

~ Neon

JM's response brings up for me another questions for any Tops who may have started out as "switches." Was there a particular experience after which your sense of identity changed and you began to see yourself as a Top? And do you ever still bottom, if only for the sensation? ~ Neon

neonflux said:

... Wondering if any of my experiences make sense? I've heard some people describe reaching a point where they "can't go back," but not so much in terms of their role. I remember a couple of switch folk on this board with more experience than I mention that they take on a role in response to that of their primary partner. For those who switch and have been in the scene longer and aren't in a relationship or are in a relationship with a switch, do you usually go back and forth, or do you go through long periods when you end up wanting to stay in one role more than the other? And do you flip back again? Ok, i know I'm going on, so I'll just leave it here, i think.

Thanks ahead of time for any perspectives / advice / feedback.

Neon

Click to expand...

One of the finest, most sadistic, deliciously wicked Dominant women I know, Lady Catherine Gross (Leather educator, author, personality), came up as a slave. Her Master taught her well, teaching her to run his household, to Top, etc. All skills she brought with her when that relationship came to an end and she became the head of her own household. There was no mistaking who the Mistress was!

And she is once again in service to another. That doesn't make her any less sadistic, any less a lady, any less deliciously wicked. It does mean she's found someone who brings out the submission and desire to serve in her heart again. And that's a good thing. It doesn't make me think any less of her, if anything I respect her even more for being able to reconcile the Queen and Diva aspects of her personality with the slave aspects.

neon, you are who you are. If you partner with someone who really touches the Domme within you, who makes you feel free to exercise that control, that authority, who unleashes your inner sadist, then that is all to the good!

And if you later meet someone who takes your breath away, who's hand in your hair makes your knees buckle and want to kiss and worship their boots, and be a toy for their pleasure, well, hell, that's all good too!

It's your life, neon. Not our fantasy (well, okay, maybe some of us fantasize about you... but that's off topic at the moment...). You don't have to live to anyone else's pre-conceved notions about who and what you should be. You need to live your life based on who you are and want to be.

Your subdrop experience may have been so intense, not because it "isn't where you live" but because it touched something really, really deep, within you, something primal, something that's been locked away and hidden because it's incredibly frightening to you that you enjoyed losing that much control. On the flip side, this intense Domme feeling may be coming from a place that revels in having that power.

Either way, or something completely different, it's okay. It's YOU. And that's good!

Evil_Geoff said:

(edited to shorten) ...It's your life, neon. Not our fantasy (well, okay, maybe some of us fantasize about you... but that's off topic at the moment...). You don't have to live to anyone else's pre-conceved notions about who and what you should be. You need to live your life based on who you are and want to be.

Click to expand...

Oh EG, you tease me so

Thank you for your whole post - it was reassuring, and gave a needed "nudge." Not to mention that it was, and I will use Miss Rebecca's word here, "magnificent."

Neon

neonflux said:

Although I still don't know where I will end up - life and where it takes you is funny that way - I never anticipated falling in love and moving in with a man, anymore than I anticipated this!

Click to expand...

LOL, that is the fun of living, and I think being a Gemini...we continue to evolve, have the ability to change our whole life when necessary...or sometimes just because we want to, and survive it all with a sigh and a smile.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/507783633_71fd2077ec_t.jpg Catalina

neonflux said:

Thanks ahead of time for any perspectives / advice / feedback.

Neon

Click to expand...

I have just read this, and am on the way out for an appointment so will be shorter then I want. There may be more from me later.

I started out thinking I was a sub, I really was a bottom in fact. At the end of one flogging session as I was struggling to get up off the floor after being released from the St. A's cross, I looked at Ma'am and then the flogger I said "please teach me how to swing that thing" thus started my switchieness.

I flirt here on Lit at times from the bottom, but in fact I do not ever see me going into that head space again - and never as a sub, I just can't do that anymore.

I will be back here later.

neonflux said:

JM's response brings up for me another questions for any Tops who may have started out as "switches." Was there a particular experience after which your sense of identity changed and you began to see yourself as a Top? And do you ever still bottom, if only for the sensation?

Click to expand...

A close friend of mine currently ID's as a Domme. A couple of times a year, she bottoms purely for the sensation. With a bit more frequency, she bottoms for the purpose of trying out a new toy, tool, or technique.... and enjoys the experience very much.

I introduced her to BDSM many years ago. She was my girlfriend & submissive, and of course bottomed to me during pain play in the bedroom. The relationship ended when she developed an interest in exploring her Top side and asked if I would teach her topping skills in the bedroom. I said yes to the teaching, but no to the bottoming itself.

For quite a while after that, she switched on a regular basis and ID'd as such. But when she fell in love again it was as a Domme, and that's where she's been for a very long time.

In a conversation about her shifting self-identification, she once said: "Everyone's really a switch...... even the obstinate ones who refuse to admit it. I ID where my heart is. That's always been true."

JMohegan said:

A close friend of mine currently ID's as a Domme. A couple of times a year, she bottoms purely for the sensation. With a bit more frequency, she bottoms for the purpose of trying out a new toy, tool, or technique.... and enjoys the experience very much.

I introduced her to BDSM many years ago. She was my girlfriend & submissive, and of course bottomed to me during pain play in the bedroom. The relationship ended when she developed an interest in exploring her Top side and asked if I would teach her topping skills in the bedroom. I said yes to the teaching, but no to the bottoming itself.

For quite a while after that, she switched on a regular basis and ID'd as such. But when she fell in love again it was as a Domme, and that's where she's been for a very long time.

In a conversation about her shifting self-identification, she once said: "Everyone's really a switch...... even the obstinate ones who refuse to admit it. I ID where my heart is. That's always been true."

Click to expand...

JM, thank you for sharing this. It's a lovely story.

Shankara20 said:

I have just read this, and am on the way out for an appointment so will be shorter then I want. There may be more from me later.

I started out thinking I was a sub, I really was a bottom in fact. At the end of one flogging session as I was struggling to get up off the floor after being released from the St. A's cross, I looked at Ma'am and then the flogger I said "please teach me how to swing that thing" thus started my switchieness.

I flirt here on Lit at times from the bottom, but in fact I do not ever see me going into that head space again - and never as a sub, I just can't do that anymore.

I will be back here later.

Click to expand...

This is very helpful, in many ways. I look forward to more if it proves to be forthcoming. A big Neon

Last post with a big thank you for everyone who posted. There is so much to take from your generosity in sharing. I sometimes overthink things and it's good to be reminded that part of the joy is in the journey.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q91/cleasf/tulips_yellow.jpg

~ Neon