5 year old in hand cuffs

The Mutt said:

I'd have dumped a bucket of water on her head.

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This works for two-year-olds - but I guess they were dealing with a child with that mental capability at the time. You're right, probably would have worked. Friends of mine did that with their youngest in his "terrible twos." Was a quick cure for the out-of-control tantrums.

Finefilly, enjoyed the autopilot comment. Parents can dream, can't they?

But the description of the television interview worries me. All of this should be done with the child's interests in mind - not a publicity stunt. Whoever mentioned Jesse and Al is probably on target. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I personally do not believe that this child is ready for the classroom at this time. A certain maturity level is required and she has not reached that yet. Some children have it at age four. She may get there at seven with a lot of work at home. Isn't there a skill set required before a student may attend kindergarten?

Pyper said:

Anyone who thinks you need to handcuff a five year old to get them to calm down doesn't have a lot of contact with five-year-olds.

From what I know of this child's behavior, I've have students (and older and stronger ones, too) behave MUCH worse. There are about one hundred strategies to get them to alter their behavior, and that doesn't include calling the police.

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I have contact with a five year old every day in my house and at the kindergarten he attends and I don't see what I saw on that video tape. This is the second time the police were involved. There is probably more to this story than has been reported.

Really, what this shows is that the entire school system is incapable of dealing with...hold your breath...a 6 year old with a temper tantrum.

Now it was a pretty bad tantrum, and she obviously has some problems, but to call the police?

Two teachers could have taken her by each hand and frogmarched her off to an empty room. Or the playground. And no, just grabbing her and marching her off would not have instigated a legal process, unlike this ridiculous business with the cops and the video.

Essentially, a pathetic little school system didn't have the balls to deal with something most parents have to deal with at one point, so they called the cops.

And that teacher was a prime specimen of Homo sapiens subspecies DMV-icus - dealing vigorously with a kid was probably not in her job description.

EarnestImp said:

... And no, just grabbing her and marching her off would not have instigated a legal process

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after watching an interview with the child's mother, i beg to differ

princess4u said:

after watching an interview with the child's mother, i beg to differ

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Yeah, but no one would have known if two teachers took her and frog marched her off and kept her somewhere for the hour it would have taken for mom to show up, and no one would have known or cared about the video camera in the classroom. There wouldn't be a legal case because for all intents and purposes there wouldn't have been an incident.

It would just have been two teachers walking down the hallway with a spastic kid between them.

But, no, they made their choice to call the police and now the video is on the BBC. Bad call.

There are so many other ways to deal with this particular scenario that it's laughable (and a cliche) a few Florida police hicks felt the need to step in with handcuffs.

Saw the kid interviewed: total troublemaker, complete with attitude problems. Good for her! She's certainly learned to keep them on their toes.

(So...how long before someone throws Ritalin down her throat?)

RoryN said:

So...how long before someone throws Ritalin down her throat?

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Haha I'll bet the subscription has already been filled. Drugs really are easier than parenting you know.

EarnestImp said:

Yeah, but no one would have known if two teachers took her and frog marched her off and kept her somewhere for the hour it would have taken for mom to show up, and no one would have known or cared about the video camera in the classroom. There wouldn't be a legal case because for all intents and purposes there wouldn't have been an incident.

It would just have been two teachers walking down the hallway with a spastic kid between them.

But, no, they made their choice to call the police and now the video is on the BBC. Bad call.

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trust me, some bleeding heart liberal would have witnessed the "frog marching" (btw, what the hell is "frog march"?) and from the way the child was spazing out, she would have had bruises within the period of an hour - not to mention what the two teachers would have looked like after an hour -
and they certainly couldn't have left her alone in an empty room for an hour -
then mom would accuse them of inflicting "solitary confinement"

yes, the school made their choice - and all the better for mom, isn't it?
now, she's an international celebrity - but obviously everyone doesn't
think the school made the wrong choice - all i saw in the video was three
individuals cuffing a child who could not be subdued in any other way
and the face of a child who was scared shitless that this time she wasn't
going to have her way - but she seemed to have recovered quite quickly
now that she's been told the authorities were wrong and she was right -
even to the point of smiling for the camera

EarnestImp said:

... and now the video is on the BBC. Bad call.

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oh NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not the BBC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry....couldn't resist)

princess4u said:

trust me, some bleeding heart liberal would have witnessed the "frog marching" (btw, what the hell is "frog march"?) and from the way the child was spazing out, she would have had bruises within the period of an hour - not to mention what the two teachers would have looked like after an hour -

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frogmarch: march someone off against their will. in the case of a kid, one teacher holding each hand. Bruises? No way, parents swing their kids for fun this way.

Bleeding heart liberal? Yet another canard. I don't think anyone here, liberal or not, wants the lawsuit to succeed, and it probably won't. But there will be a lawsuit, which would not have been the case if they had firmly marched her off without handcuffs.

That teacher was a cow(ard); she was intimidated, and the kid saw it, and escalated her tantrum. They were wimps for calling the cops.

princess4u said:

oh NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not the BBC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yes, exactly. They turned a 6 year old's temper tantrum into an international news item. There's something in the water in Florida, and it ain't fluoride.

EarnestImp said:

There's something in the water in Florida, and it ain't fluoride.

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...it's 'gators

princess4u said:

...it's 'gators

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That too.

Besides gators, I'm figuring that it's some sort of parasitic worm that tunnels into the brain and eats away at the bits responsible for common sense.

Either that, or some seriously toxic heavy metal.

EarnestImp said:

That too.

Besides gators, I'm figuring that it's some sort of parasitic worm that tunnels into the brain and eats away at the bits responsible for common sense.

Either that, or some seriously toxic heavy metal.

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hey now! i'll have you know, that's not just in florida -
give every state of the union its just respect....

princess4u said:

all i saw in the video was three individuals cuffing a child who could not be subdued in any other way

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No other way? You must be kidding. There were four policemen in the room, a teacher and an administrator, and you're saying there was no other way to subdue a five year old other than with handcuffs?

Give me a break. How about therapeutic restraint? Ever heard of it? For children with B/D problems, therapeutic restraint is not only highly effective and safe, but it most often calms the child down rapidly, exactly the opposite of what happened when the cuffs were put on. And I've seen it done (have in fact done it myself) by a single adult, though sometimes it's hard to do with an extremely combative kid. Regardless, though, there were six adults there, including four police officers. Instituting the restraint would have been no more difficult than putting on the cuffs, and it should have been the last strategy attempted.

There are so many problems here that I don't know where to start. This is pretty late in the school year to be identifying a kid with behavior problems. Regardless of what many have said in this thread, there are ways for school officials to lay hands upon a child for purposes of control. To completely cover their asses it requires an IEP and a behavior plan, but those options are available in every state because they're covered by federal law, not state statute. If, as it appears, this child has been a chronic problem, then a behavior plan should have been in place long ago. The mechanism is there. There is no age requirement It just needed to be implemented.

Without a behavior plan, the school was indeed within reasonable bounds to call in police. That happens in schools every day, for very good reasons. This child was striking a teacher; there's good reason to fear she could have struck another child as well. Safety of children is paramount. If control can't be managed, then outside authorities should be called. However, the decision by the police to handcuff the child is abominable. There are other options, many falling well short of restraint, for controlling an unruly child. The police in question need serious education and training.

The mother...well, here's the heart of it. Assuming the child doesn't have a developmental delay of some sort, this behavior stems from the home and the culture in which she's being raised. If anyone should be in handcuffs, it should be mom, and whatever Florida's equivalent to DCFS is, they should be looking into this post haste.

The actions of the police will never hold up for one simple reason, Nobody yelled, "Book 'em, Dano".

It was poor planning all around. There should have been written notification to the parent about the previous incident and what would take place if she did not correct the problem. Child welfare should have immediately been involved when the first incident occured. Somebody didn't do their homework.....F-

I would have liked to have listened in to that phone call to the police.

"Hello, police? We need you to come rescue us from a five year old!"

After seeing the mom on tv, you can bet they've called her before and been met with the "my child is a GOOD child", she doesn't do anything wrong.

It's okay for people to say "there are better ways" etc., but you know what? You weren't there, you only saw what the mothers LAWYER released on film, so you really don't know what you would have done or how you would have handled it.

I say good for the cops and good for the schoool. Hopefully, the lawsuit blows up in the mother's face.

Sad to say, but no matter what had been done to bring things under control, someone would have screamed it was the wrong way to do it.

The first reports tainted so many peoples view, ... "5 yr old handcuffed" while accurate was inflamatory and polarizing, Hearst would be proud, ...

The kid needs serious help, Mom needs help too. Fortunately the kid didn't get hurt during her rampage.

sigh said:

No other way? You must be kidding. There were four policemen in the room, a teacher and an administrator, and you're saying there was no other way to subdue a five year old other than with handcuffs?

Give me a break. How about therapeutic restraint? Ever heard of it? For children with B/D problems, therapeutic restraint is not only highly effective and safe, but it most often calms the child down rapidly, exactly the opposite of what happened when the cuffs were put on. And I've seen it done (have in fact done it myself) by a single adult, though sometimes it's hard to do with an extremely combative kid. Regardless, though, there were six adults there, including four police officers. Instituting the restraint would have been no more difficult than putting on the cuffs, and it should have been the last strategy attempted.

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Exactly. I have restrained many out of control children and teens without resorting to handcuffs.

It was way over the top.

And no, the child should not be behaving in the manner she was without some sort of consequence.

If she was my child I would be horrified and trying to get her help for her behaviour.

Tough love would be a good start.

And you don't always need to smack your child to give them discipline but I'm not anti smacking.

EarnestImp said:

Essentially, a pathetic little school system didn't have the balls to deal with something most parents have to deal with at one point, so they called the cops.

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So, should parents dump the behaviour problems of their kids on the school and expect the school to fix it?

overthebow said:

So, should parents dump the behaviour problems of their kids on the school and expect the school to fix it?

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Don't be so silly, their kids are perfect angels. It's got to be the school/teacher/man on the corner/ anyone but themselves to blame

overthebow said:

So, should parents dump the behaviour problems of their kids on the school and expect the school to fix it?

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Most do.

Sigh is absolutely correct - there should be an IEP in place, but if this mother is truly of the "My child is just special/high strung/misunderstood ilk, she probably refused to attend any meetings with the school counselor and psychologist, and so no IEP could be put into place.

I know two people who have kids with serious behavioral issues. One of them takes the kid to counseling once a week, a psychiatrist once a month, is in daily phone contact with the school, and has a very well outlined IEP in place. The IEP clearly details every single disciplinary step that can be taken for each incident. It does mention calling 'the authorities' as a last resort. The child is 8 years old.

The other parent has repeatedly refused to attend IEP meetings because she doesn't feel that the school is doing enough to 'recognize her child's individuality'. This is a child that has been barely passing in school since 3rd grade. She's now in 8th grade, has serious anger issues, makes threats, throws temper tantrums in the classroom, and is bigger than most adults I know. Since there is no longer an IEP in place, there's no longer a guideline for what the school can do it 'normal disciplinary measures' (detention/saturday school/suspension) don't work. And they clearly don't work. This child is so disconnected, NOTHING works. She's been that disconnected since I met her when she was 6 years old.

Unfortunately, this is going to be seen as a huge fuck up on the part of the school/police when it's entirely possible that it's a lifetime of failure on the part of the mother. We don't know what measures had been taken in the past, or if there was an IEP in place, or if the mother recognized that the child even has behavioral issues. We don't know if this child has reached such a level of disconnect from the people around her that discipline (at least, of the standard/traditional kind) no longer has any effect.

It's also unfortunate that even if family services gets involved, chances are, nothing will be done. The general standard is 'clothed/fed/sheltered/attending school'.

Calamity Jane said:

Unfortunately, this is going to be seen as a huge fuck up on the part of the school/police when it's entirely possible that it's a lifetime of failure on the part of the mother. We don't know what measures had been taken in the past, or if there was an IEP in place, or if the mother recognized that the child even has behavioral issues. We don't know if this child has reached such a level of disconnect from the people around her that discipline (at least, of the standard/traditional kind) no longer has any effect.

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Good post.

Another post said the woman was on ET. WTF? There are some serious problems here and going on TV is not the way to deal with it.

This situation is more complex than it appears. It is not simply handcuffing a 5 yr old, it is about who has control in our schools. And it seems very clear to me that the adults do not. And who's fault is that? Ours of course, at some point the parents must raise their own children and not the school system. And if they do not wish to do so then some one in the schools must have control. But we do not allow that either. If an principal or even heaven forbid a teacher tries to restrain an unruly child to get control of their classrooms, then we have them fired, sued and run out of town. And for what? Attempting to do what we pay them for, teach our children. And discipline is part of teaching as we all have rules to follow all thru life. And if we break them there are consequences. We need to stop blaming everyone else and realize that this is another one of our failures as a society.