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Minutemen Project your thoughts

Look at the whole picture

I think this problem is far more complex than we think, for starters we are neighbors and we can't do anything about that, what we should be doing is trying to promote better jobs down there to help out to better their economy, instead we sell our country to China every day, b we are just thinking of ourselves, and my friends that will come back to bite us in the ass sooner or later, take for example Europe, they just sign a Constitution, and before that they had become a whole economic system, they united the strong and also the weak countries and today they are becoming the strongest economy in the World, and if you don't believe me try go buy some EUROS, and after you buy them, try and buy a cup-o-joe in downtown Madrid, I say yes! keep the borders tight but do look into the bigger picture, we can't compete alone.
 
babeshubby said:
I think this problem is far more complex than we think, for starters we are neighbors and we can't do anything about that, what we should be doing is trying to promote better jobs down there to help out to better their economy, instead we sell our country to China every day, b we are just thinking of ourselves, and my friends that will come back to bite us in the ass sooner or later, take for example Europe, they just sign a Constitution, and before that they had become a whole economic system, they united the strong and also the weak countries and today they are becoming the strongest economy in the World, and if you don't believe me try go buy some EUROS, and after you buy them, try and buy a cup-o-joe in downtown Madrid, I say yes! keep the borders tight but do look into the bigger picture, we can't compete alone.
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First of all, good fences make for good neighbors.

We cannot promote jobs in any country where the governments laws and policies make it impossible for those same businesses to operate profitably. That is a problem for Mexico to solve. We can't solve that problem short of invasion and annexation.

The EU constitution is a joke and will ultimately lead to its own dissolution. Every decade or so we've watched panics set in over the dollar vs one foriegn currency or another. The Yen, the Mark, even the Franc at one time. Nothing ever came of it. That's NOT to say that it won't in the future, but we're already watching the dollar recover as the Fed. discount rate rises. Europe has it's own serious immigrant problems and they're going to get worse. The problem in Europe is that they can't solve their problem without destroying their economies. To the point of potential revolutions. Only the UK is winning the demographics game. The core continental powers are tanking.

China, as a rising power has the potential to be a problem. But they too will change just as Japan did before them.

Ishmael
 
Ham Murabi said:
So if they are down there tripping these sophisticated sensors that the border patrol responds to, how is it possible this is the No. 1 spot to cross the border illegally?
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I don't think one precludes the other - I am just saying that by having bumbling idiots tripping the sensors they cause the BP and INS to respond to false alarms, thereby reducing their effectiveness. I personally think this is a good thing. I for the most part want open borders. I am not worried about terrorists sneaking in with illegal immigrants via Mexico - they come in on airliners with valid passports they get from their governments, not sneaking across the border with Mexicans.

As for calling the Minutemen racists, I'd want to have a better handle on the ethnic makeup of the group before offering an opinion. I've read that the Minutemen include all races.
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I didn't call them racists - I just said I think they are bumbling idiots.
 
linuxgeek said:
Yup... if they have to sneak or be smuggled over the border, they have no right to be here. They don't deserve any rights or privileges the people legally here receive.
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Everyone has rights, whether they are citizens or not. Priviledges are another matter.

There is a border for a reason.
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Which is?
 
bill-pix-trade said:
Why should I or any other tax payer support criminals? If they are here illegally they are criminals.
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Everybody is a criminal if the definition is that to be a criminal you have to have broken a law. :rolleyes: Most people break laws every day without knowing it.
 
linuxgeek said:
If they didn't have the easy way out of the illegals they can underpay and overwork, someone would just comeup with a machine which will do the job.
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Farmers have been trying to create machines that will harvest certain crops for decades, and many (strawberries, etc.) still have to be picked by hand. Kids won't do it anymore - hell with child labor and liability laws nowadays, it is near impossible and very risky to employ children to do what I used to do at age 8 (work in the fields).
 
The Heretic said:
Farmers have been trying to create machines that will harvest certain crops for decades, and many (strawberries, etc.) still have to be picked by hand. Kids won't do it anymore - hell with child labor and liability laws nowadays, it is near impossible and very risky to employ children to do what I used to do at age 8 (work in the fields).
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You sound like "Busty the Clown" now.

Ishmael
 
Lee Chambers said:
First off, I read both storys all the way through and there is nothing in there to suggest any manner of racism at all.
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On television, the media is focusing on the hicks on border patrol.

I'm sure not all of these people are hicks. But I'm also sure there's quite a few of them in the fray. I don't like hicks representing this country at our borders, in Iraq, or in the Oval Office.

Obvious prejudice on my part. But, anyone who proclaims themselves as a "hick and proud of it" is no better than me proclaiming to be a "hick hater and proud of it". I acknowledge my shortcomings in this area. Time for them to acknowledge theirs.
 
The Heretic said:
I don't think one precludes the other - I am just saying that by having bumbling idiots tripping the sensors they cause the BP and INS to respond to false alarms, thereby reducing their effectiveness. I personally think this is a good thing. I for the most part want open borders. I am not worried about terrorists sneaking in with illegal immigrants via Mexico - they come in on airliners with valid passports they get from their governments, not sneaking across the border with Mexicans.

I didn't call them racists - I just said I think they are bumbling idiots.
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I was referring to the post that did refer to them as racists. If others believe you said they are racists because of my post, I apologize.

The bumbling idiots, meanwhile, are proving to be so successful even the Mexican government is patrolling its own border to tell people planning to cross to try elsewhere.
 
Ishmael said:
By encouraging the stream of illegals to cross the border to the US they are attempting to "off load" their problems on us
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Isn't Bush planning to legalise them?

ppman
 
Ham Murabi said:
I was referring to the post that did refer to them as racists. If others believe you said they are racists because of my post, I apologize.

The bumbling idiots, meanwhile, are proving to be so successful even the Mexican government is patrolling its own border to tell people planning to cross to try elsewhere.
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Isn't that the truth? TSG has gone over the hill in some respects.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
He has an ill formed idea as to a solution.

Ishmael
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So he is planning to legalise them...

Must put you into a bit of a quandry. Try not to self-destruct...

ppman
 
p_p_man said:
So he is planning to legalise them...

Must put you into a bit of a quandry. Try not to self-destruct...

ppman
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Not at all pp. Do some research on my posts going back two years now.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Not at all pp. Do some research on my posts going back two years now.

Ishmael
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Going back how far? To the time you claimed to have found a cure for cancer?

ppman
 
p_p_man said:
Going back how far? To the time you claimed to have found a cure for cancer?

ppman
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Post a link to the thread wherein I made that claim pp.

Ishmael
 
Sneak into Mexico and violate its laws.

Don't learn the language.

Then demand to be viewed as noble and morally entitled.

Then demand that your kids get affirmative action scholarships to Mexican colleges.
 
landslider said:
Sneak into Mexico and violate its laws.

Don't learn the language.

Then demand to be viewed as noble and morally entitled.

Then demand that your kids get affirmative action scholarships to Mexican colleges.
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We could do it the way the Texans did in 1836.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Post a link to the thread wherein I made that claim pp.

Ishmael
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Nahh...to be honest I don't whether you did or not, along with other claims you were meant to have made. I just went along with the crowd...

You're a man...you can take it... :D

ppman
 
This a new game bush as started it is to see how many heads you can get in a year and then you get a special award. It is stupid.
 
p_p_man said:
Nahh...to be honest I don't whether you did or not, along with other claims you were meant to have made. I just went along with the crowd...

You're a man...you can take it... :D

ppman
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You have to be careful of the crowd you run with pp. Especially when it's headed by LT.

Ishmael
 
landslider said:
Don't learn the language.

Then demand that your kids get affirmative action scholarships to Mexican colleges.
Click to expand...

I am not going to comment on the other two points you said, but I will on these.

We want the kids of illegal immigrants going to school here in the United States for two reasons. The first, education is the most important tool for the socialization of people. Thus the kids will understand our culture better, thus value, what we value. The second, is that the children, if born in the US, of illegal immigrants are United State citizens. The disadvantage of having a large section of the populace uneducated would destroy the United States economy.

As for learning the language, the United states has no official language. However, some immigrants do learn English, and most who have lived in the US for a long time know English. The thing is the usage of English in immigrants families increase as more generations live in the US. Here is a section from a Wikipedia article.

Wikipedia said:
Popular culture varies widely from one Hispanic community to another, despite this, several features tend to unite Hispanics from diverse backgrounds. Many Hispanics, including U.S.-born second and third generation Hispanics, use the Spanish language to varying degrees. The most usual pattern is monolingual Spanish usage among new immigrants or older foreign born Hispanics, complete bilingualism among long settled immigrants and their children, and the use of Spanglish and colloquial Spanish within long established Hispanic communities by the third generation and beyond. In some families the children and grandchildren of immigrants speak mostly English with some Spanish words and phrases thrown in. Wikipedai Article
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alphanav1 said:
I am not going to comment on the other two points you said, but I will on these.

We want the kids of illegal immigrants going to school here in the United States for two reasons. The first, education is the most important tool for the socialization of people. Thus the kids will understand our culture better, thus value, what we value. The second, is that the children, if born in the US, of illegal immigrants are United State citizens. The disadvantage of having a large section of the populace uneducated would destroy the United States economy.

As for learning the language, the United states has no official language. However, some immigrants do learn English, and most who have lived in the US for a long time know English. The thing is the usage of English in immigrants families increase as more generations live in the US. Here is a section from a Wikipedia article.
Click to expand...

What's this "We" crap? Are you pregnant? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I'm fairly certain you aren't royalty.

The majority of Americans don't want the illegals or their kids here, period. Track them down, scoop them up, and deport them. The solution is simple. May not be easy, but it is simple.

They don't deserve to be here. They lost that privilege by commiting a criminal act as their very first act in this country.

Ishmael
 
alphanav1 said:
We want the kids of illegal immigrants going to school here in the United States for two reasons. The first, education is the most important tool for the socialization of people. Thus the kids will understand our culture better, thus value, what we value. The second, is that the children, if born in the US, of illegal immigrants are United State citizens. The disadvantage of having a large section of the populace uneducated would destroy the United States economy.
Click to expand...


In what way does the ability to cross a border entitle one to free public education? I pay for public education. I am constantly told I do not pay enough, and now you want to add the population of a new country to the rolls of those I am not paying enough to educate?

I do not want to socialize the illegal aliens. I want them to become legal immigrants, and help pay for their own children's educations.

The law making any child born in the US a citizen is another example of a broken immigration policy. Pregnant women crossing the border to birth children and risking both their child's health and their own is a good thing? This law needs to be changed to cover only those legally within the U.S. which was the intent.
 
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