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affirmative action

GirlMidnite said:
I hate to throw a perfectly good compliment in someone's face. So I'm keeping it :)
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That was *not* an affirmative action compliment, either. You just are.
 
spacekowboy420 said:
If fluffing means what i think it means then yes! you are correct
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what does fluffing mean to you?

does it mean

a) A particularly vigorous pillow fight with tiny clothes?
b) A bird preening itself before it's big date with papa bird?
c) the manual preparation of a man's genitalia for activities of the below torso variety?
d) all of the above?
 
GirlMidnite said:
Proof that to the adage that men can be fluffy too. :catroar:
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I'm just a slow-witted newbie but what exactly do people mean when they use the word "fluff" or "fluffy" on Lit? :confused:
 
GirlMidnite said:
To tell the truth, I think it would take a system run by robots for robots for any type of utopia to be created.

I am a proponent of capitalism and the free market because it is essentially a creative force, and also, because too much of a limited economy or too much welfare in a democratic society can lead to the type of problems Sweden faced whereby people who were working could sometimes expect a marginalised standard of living compared to those who claimed benefits. Welfare is open to abuse, and in terms of local governance, mismanagement. Stating that, AA is the trade off that the US government makes in order to avoid evolving a better system. Here in the UK, AA would be inexcusable because we already have a generous welfare system- also the problem of race here is more complicated-and is more related to the nation or region you came from than your skin colour (e.g. the differences between black britons, black arabs, black carribeans and black africans vary in how they can expect to succeed.)

Though I think it sucks if and when white people who have tried really hard do not get a job they would have been better qualified for, I think AA is an intruiging experiment to see if societies ills can be immunised with an injection of another type of ill.
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Well the problem is, that no one has found a better system. I am still hope the restructured welfare system will make it through its flaws and eventually become the program its intended to be: a stepping stone to help those who need it to get back on their feet. If that happens, the only need for AA will be to keep racists from hiring people based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

On that note, I do agree with AA. But of course, if a company is forced to hire someone it doesn't want, what keeps that company from treating those people like shit? I wouldn't want to work for a company that was 'forced' to hire me or be in a job that I can't do because I was needed to fulfill a quota. It would take away much of my pride and self esteem to find out I wasn't there because of my skills, knowledge, etc.

To me, that seems just as degrading as not getting hired because of my race or gender even though I was the best person for the job. The ones who are getting hired strictly because of AA, IMO, probably know that, and if that's the case, they probably won't end up learning new skills or becoming more employable, as you mentioned earlier. Although, I am sure there are plenty who do benefit, I'm skeptical that they are the majority. Now that we are offering more job training for those previously on welfare (ideally), AA shouldn't be necessary for that any more.

Of course, isn't every political measure just an experiment?
 
MechaBlade said:
Can't tell that you're drunk. Even when wasted, you make more sense than most Litsters. Your posts generally have the logical thinking and/or humor that make Lit a better place.
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Thanks, man. Ditto for you.

MechaBlade said:
In case it's at all unclear (since no one has mentioned it in this thread), race is used as a tiebreaker to select one from multiple intelligent and well-qualified candidates, as opposed to race being used as the only or even main qualification.
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Right. But, race has been an unofficial "tiebreaker" for years in the U.S. amongst qualified candidates for positions...except, the slant has been on the other foot - for the white majority.

Now, the counter-argument would be: "But, in those cases, race was seen as the main qualification by a white majority, not as a tiebreaker". Okay; granted, it was (and, still is) in many instances. But, in those (let's call them "rare") occasions when race was truly considered to be nothing more than a tiebreaker between equal candidates, and the white candidate came out on top due to their skin color, an injustice was still being committed. A coin flip would've been more fair and impartial.

So, doing the same in reverse just doesn't sit right with me. Peel away the skin until all you're seeing is blood, guts, and brains. Then qualify your candidate. Is it impossible for us to view people this way? Maybe.

But, despite what I said about being proactive, it might be worth a try to fix this issue the hard way. Over war and centuries, we did manage to implement the artificial ideal of democracy in this country. We still fuck it up, and it requires constant vigilance and education to maintain, but it's there in all of our minds to the extent that we sometimes practice it without realising it - the sign of a successful implementation of a system of thought.

Apply the same effort to combat racism?
 
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spacekowboy420 said:
Does intelligent political debate between 2 extreemly hot women have anyone else hard as a rock right now? or am I the only one??
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It's all about GM. She makes me look better by association.
 
SweetSurrendered1 said:
It's all about GM. She makes me look better by association.
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In a show of progress and harmony amongst the races, I would like to fuck you both at the same time.

This is for history, ladies. You can't refuse :cool:
 
MechaBlade said:
In case it's at all unclear (since no one has mentioned it in this thread), race is used as a tiebreaker to select one from multiple intelligent and well-qualified candidates, as opposed to race being used as the only or even main qualification.
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Sometimes it is just a tiebreaker but sometimes it is about meeting a quota and the qualifications may not be equal at all.

Of course, reverse this back to history and companies would rather have an incompetent employee who was white than a competent employee who wasn't. No one is disputing the insanity of this mindset.
 
ImSinister said:
In a show of progress and harmony amongst the races, I would like to fuck you both at the same time.

This is for history, ladies. You can't refuse :cool:
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Yet another example of Sin's enthusiastic desire to help with any problem he can.

Did I ever say that you're my hero? :kiss:
 
SweetSurrendered1 said:
Yet another example of Sin's enthusiastic desire to help with any problem he can.

Did I ever say that you're my hero? :kiss:
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I am all about solutions, babe :D

I'll take that as one yes *checks off SweetS*

Now, where did g-MidNite go?
 
SweetSurrendered1 said:
Well the problem is, that no one has found a better system. I am still hope the restructured welfare system will make it through its flaws and eventually become the program its intended to be: a stepping stone to help those who need it to get back on their feet. If that happens, the only need for AA will be to keep racists from hiring people based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

On that note, I do agree with AA. But of course, if a company is forced to hire someone it doesn't want, what keeps that company from treating those people like shit? I wouldn't want to work for a company that was 'forced' to hire me or be in a job that I can't do because I was needed to fulfill a quota. It would take away much of my pride and self esteem to find out I wasn't there because of my skills, knowledge, etc.

To me, that seems just as degrading as not getting hired because of my race or gender even though I was the best person for the job. The ones who are getting hired strictly because of AA, IMO, probably know that, and if that's the case, they probably won't end up learning new skills or becoming more employable, as you mentioned earlier. Although, I am sure there are plenty who do benefit, I'm skeptical that they are the majority. Now that we are offering more job training for those previously on welfare (ideally), AA shouldn't be necessary for that any more.

Of course, isn't every political measure just an experiment?
Click to expand...


I think that you are right, all political measures are experimental, including democracy. It is whether they are successful experiments that will helpfully inform future community builders as to what happens next is crucial. A failed experiment can turn into a socio-political aversion.
I think that AA has the most fruitful benefits in education- this has been shown to be the case (many great black academics are thankful for this part of AA.) However, in the case of occupations, I believe that if there is a substantial welfare system and a secure education system that is able to stream in at the least, a proportion of students that resemble the demographic, then an equal opportunity monitor is all that is necessary for occupation and the work environment. I have black relatives in the US, but they are all self-made, so I don't know how they feel about welfare or AA.
I do however, have a cousin who got into the US on a scholarship scheme- she truly came from a difficult background (my aunty was abusive towards her and she left home early to stay with someone else) and the opportunities that uni has presented to her have turned her life and self-esteem around. I imagine that AA can do for some particularly disadvantaged afro-american kids. Universities are artificial learning environments anyway- their intake of students before AA favoured reverse AA- where rich/powerful but not competant students were given priority over students with more prowess but less strings.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...this is what happens when an insomniac gets into the habit of skipping the night and the day. ;)
 
ImSinister said:
I am all about solutions, babe :D

I'll take that as one yes *checks off SweetS*

Now, where did g-MidNite go?
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You are terrible. Terrible, terrible.

But if there was any conservative woman that I would get it on with SweetS will be on my list.
 
I would never discriminate against someone because of their race/gender/unwillingness to give me a blow-job.
 
GirlMidnite said:
You are terrible. Terrible, terrible.

But if there was any conservative woman that I would get it on with SweetS will be on my list.
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This is the perfect way to convert her to your ideas - remember ACTIONS :p speak louder than words.

And yes, I am terrible.
 
GirlMidnite said:
I think that you are right, all political measures are experimental, including democracy. It is whether they are successful experiments that will helpfully inform future community builders as to what happens next is crucial. A failed experiment can turn into a socio-political aversion.
I think that AA has the most fruitful benefits in education- this has been shown to be the case (many great black academics are thankful for this part of AA.) However, in the case of occupations, I believe that if there is a substantial welfare system and a secure education system that is able to stream in at the least, a proportion of students that resemble the demographic, then an equal opportunity monitor is all that is necessary for occupation and the work environment. I have black relatives in the US, but they are all self-made, so I don't know how they feel about welfare or AA.
I do however, have a cousin who got into the US on a scholarship scheme- she truly came from a difficult background (my aunty was abusive towards her and she left home early to stay with someone else) and the opportunities that uni has presented to her have turned her life and self-esteem around. I imagine that AA can do for some particularly disadvantaged afro-american kids. Universities are artificial learning environments anyway- their intake of students before AA favoured reverse AA- where rich/powerful but not competant students were given priority over students with more prowess but less strings.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...this is what happens when an insomniac gets into the habit of skipping the night and the day. ;)
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It does make sense and the fact that you can provide more specific examples definitely gives your argument much credibility. AA is a gray area as never before, except for welfare, has anything like it been tried before. But because history is our best educator, what happened to the welfare system here must be remembered when speaking of AA and what to do about it.

Maybe better monitoring and the ability to restructure when needed could make it work better. But if left to sit as is for 50+ years, it could be very harmful.

Maybe the question should be, how long do we let an experiment such as AA continue before making minor adjustments in an effort to improve it? Democracy has consistently made adjustments. Maybe that's why it has survived as long as it has, despite its many inherent flaws.
 
ImSinister said:
This is the perfect way to convert her to your ideas - remember ACTIONS :p speak louder than words.

And yes, I am terrible.
Click to expand...

I don't want to convert SweetS, where would be the fun in that? :)
 
ImSinister said:
This is the perfect way to convert her to your ideas - remember ACTIONS :p speak louder than words.

And yes, I am terrible.
Click to expand...

When it comes to sex, I am actually already quite liberal. I bet that's a real shocker to you all!
 
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