Loving Wives - Why?

[Bebop3]

I know that LW is a topic that's been discussed to death, but for the writers that post there, may I ask why?

I'm assuming that the most popular answer is 'because fuck them'. I like and respect that answer, but that category is such a cesspool that I can't even conceive of posting a story there. Fuck the idiots that vote and comment in LW. Got it. But is there another reason? Am I missing something?

If I had a story that would normally go there, I would strip it of any sex and put it in non-erotic.

There are readers in LW who open every story and give it a 1. These people are disturbed. Half the voting/commenting readers want the female lead to be drawn and quartered and the other half want reconciliation regardless of how abusive the relationship is(was?). There is very little room in the middle.

I just don't get the readership or the authors that spend their valuable time and considerable talent wading into that waste.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

I wouldn’t waste time figuring it out. Just write what you like and post where you think it should go. I’ve been accused of having elements of different categories in my stories but the overall series belongs where I put it. Just do your thing and forget about the LW trolls.

Unless you want to harass them, then start a thread in story ideas and we can go from there.

 

[GrandTeton]

You do it once, under another name, just to show you can. And if you manage to drop one in that gets past the worst of them and has a decent score and doesn't burn the bitch, maybe you've achieved something. That's why I did it, anyway.

 

[NotWise]

I know that LW is a topic that's been discussed to death, but for the writers that post there, may I ask why?

I haven't done it, but I think the potentially HUGE response is the main reason. It often isn't a very friendly response, but some people are into being stroked, even if it's with a sledge hammer.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

I did it once, just to tweak the trolls. Not sure if I could actually write a decent loving wife story. I tend to angle towards fantasy and find myself having to cut it out of the series I’m currently writing. Daily life bores me to write about and as soon as you include a secret lover in that category you’ve gone off their desired track. They want boy meets girl in grade school, devotes life to her through high school, separated by college, and reunite years later to have 29 kids and 4 dogs and somehow win the lottery to pay all the bills. All while remaining faithful to the 2x3 photo in their wallets.....

 

[GrandTeton]

I haven't done it, but I think the potentially HUGE response is the main reason. It often isn't a very friendly response, but some people are into being stroked, even if it's with a sledge hammer.

Not why I did it, though you may be right. I've had other stories with more views, but none with as many votes, favourites or comments - most of them favourable. The really rotten ones disappeared somehow, but there actually weren't all that many of them.

 

[Kantarii]

I think I’d rather jerk off using sandpaper or a steel wool than post in LW. At least then I could find a use for the one feminine thing that I’ve never had a use for - a tamponKant until then, I’m gonna stay on this side of LW and keep posting in other categories that I have an interest in.

 

[Yorkiechai]

. . . . They want boy meets girl in grade school, devotes life to her through high school, separated by college, and reunite years later to have 29 kids and 4 dogs and somehow win the lottery to pay all the bills. All while remaining faithful to the 2x3 photo in their wallets.....

Or a variation, he beats the hell out of her, f's the neighbor's wife and then the neighbor's neighbor's wife, she forgives him, pleads for him to love only her and to f her every way under the sun with his big cock, which of course he does and that satisfies her the way she imagines no other man can (she was a virgin when they married and of course has had no one but him since), all the while she is cooking and cleaning for their 29 kids and 9 dogs (the bitch had a litter of 5 adorable puppies that she is having to breast feed in lieu of the dog who has lactation problems). Oh, and did I mention she (the wife, not the dog) does the cooking and cleaning nude except for her red stiletto platform pumps and occasionally bounces her 44 F boobs in front of his face while bringing him his beer(s).

 

[NotWise]

Or a variation, he beats the hell out of her, f's the neighbor's wife and then the neighbor's neighbor's wife, she forgives him, pleads for him to love only her and to f her every way under the sun with his big cock, which of course he does and that satisfies her the way she imagines no other man can (she was a virgin when they married and of course has had no one but him since), all the while she is cooking and cleaning for their 29 kids and 9 dogs (the bitch had a litter of 5 adorable puppies that she is having to breast feed in lieu of the dog who has lactation problems). Oh, and did I mention she (the wife, not the dog) does the cooking and cleaning nude except for her red stiletto platform pumps and occasionally bounces her 44 F boobs in front of his face while bringing him his beer(s).

Five stars!

 

[xelliebabex]

You do it once, under another name, just to show you can. And if you manage to drop one in that gets past the worst of them and has a decent score and doesn't burn the bitch, maybe you've achieved something. That's why I did it, anyway.

I did it once under my own name, because of the survivor contest that used to run here on lit.

Mine was neither cuckold or burn the bitch or even reconciliation. The story is probably more suited to Group as its a threesome trope I put it there for a reason at the time and it hasn't been totally annihilated by anyone. It fluctuates greatly in the score but hasn't dipped under 4.25 I don't believe and both chapters carry a red H on and off. So there is that.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

Or a variation, he beats the hell out of her, f's the neighbor's wife and then the neighbor's neighbor's wife, she forgives him, pleads for him to love only her and to f her every way under the sun with his big cock, which of course he does and that satisfies her the way she imagines no other man can (she was a virgin when they married and of course has had no one but him since), all the while she is cooking and cleaning for their 29 kids and 9 dogs (the bitch had a litter of 5 adorable puppies that she is having to breast feed in lieu of the dog who has lactation problems). Oh, and did I mention she (the wife, not the dog) does the cooking and cleaning nude except for her red stiletto platform pumps and occasionally bounces her 44 F boobs in front of his face while bringing him his beer(s).

Goddamn it. Warnings please.... beer out my nose across the keyboard.... again...

 

[Yorkiechai]

Goddamn it. Warnings please.... beer out my nose across the keyboard.... again...

Hmmm was it at least served to you by the 44F boob owner?

 

[oshaw]

I know that LW is a topic that's been discussed to death, but for the writers that post there, may I ask why?

I'm assuming that the most popular answer is 'because fuck them'. I like and respect that answer, but that category is such a cesspool that I can't even conceive of posting a story there. Fuck the idiots that vote and comment in LW. Got it. But is there another reason? Am I missing something?

If I had a story that would normally go there, I would strip it of any sex and put it in non-erotic.

There are readers in LW who open every story and give it a 1. These people are disturbed. Half the voting/commenting readers want the female lead to be drawn and quartered and the other half want reconciliation regardless of how abusive the relationship is(was?). There is very little room in the middle.

I just don't get the readership or the authors that spend their valuable time and considerable talent wading into that waste.

Usually I ignore all the posts slamming the Loving Wives readership but since you asked why I write in Loving Wives, I'll go ahead and comment. It is because the LW readers are the most demanding and critical of all the readers in Literotica. When I write a story that the readers acclaim, I feel I've accomplished something. During the Korean War there was a popular saying, "If you can't handle MIG's, don't fly in MIG alley." I like to think I am up to the challenge. And, I feel I have a small measure of success with the limited number of stories I've posted.


Take for example, my story, "Equation, favored by 567 with 271 comments; or, "Grief" favored by 354 with 372 comments. I think those are outstanding numbers. Perhaps your stories numbers are similar, but frankly, I have little interest in the categories where most of the Author Hangout's frequent. But, what I don't do is denigrate other authors or why they post in a particular category.


Simply put, I'd prefer reading LW stories from the likes of qhml1, dtiverson, Todd 172, some of the vast list of great writers that have no inherent bias against LW. That all of the Author Hangout's commenters continue to goosestep against LW is certainly your right.

So please continue to snipe away and I'll go back to ignoring these posts.

 

[holliday1960]

I've sat here and looked at this thread for a long time now. Despite warnings, alarms going off in my head to stay away from this, I'm gonna jump in here and say a couple of things. First, in Bebops defense and without knowing, without reading, without ever having spoken to or about this individual to my recollection, I don't think his or her question or comment was intended to denigrate anyone. In fact, I took it as being a question of awe, given the last sentence praising the talent.

There are many writers and readers who ask the same question often. It isn't a malicious question. It's more of a fascination and a desire to understand the motivations. Nothing more, nothing less. (That's speaking only on my own behalf.)

I'm not sure where the idea originated that everyone on the AH is 'against' LW writers. They're fellow writers and while there may be interpersonal tiffs or out and out flame wars between some on Lit, that doesn't include ALL the members of Lit, nor does it include ALL people who frequent the AH board. That's inaccurate and an unfair statement or assumption.

I find it interesting that as a LW contributor who paints a portrait of being a 'tough guy' writer, and I agree, anyone who ventures into the LW category should have thick skin, but why the sudden sensitivity to what I read as a basically benign question?

In the past couple of years I've been on Lit as a member, I've witnessed some strange interactions between people and when I see and hear these exchanges, I'm called upon to remember the words of a dear and wise friend: 'It's only free porn, people. No body poisoned your dog or killed your mother. It's a FREE PORN site.'

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the OP's question is a legit one. I read it as "Why do people put themselves through this" as in every category has some trolls, but LW is synonymous with the word and they are by far the worst and ugliest.

Its like looking at someone doing something self destructive and saying "why would you do that to yourself?"

The answer, like everything here varies, but my first response is some people like writing those particular stories and won't let the trolls stop them. Some people have the kink and like to write just like people write in other sections.

Some people do enjoy whipping up the trolls. I did it with a burn the bastard story, that ironically after some time made it up to an H after the initial thrashing.

Some people just like to say they did it, like a badge of honor, a dare...Yeah, I went there.

Some like to challenge themselves and will write in as many categories as they can.

But I get the general tone of the question and don't see anything malicious behind it.

 

[Bebop3]

Yeah, that was a pretty bizarre response from Oshaw. A couple of quick points:

1) I didn't denigrate any authors. At all. I never have in any post. Feel free to go back and check my posting history. Contrary to Oshaw's claim (of me denigrating them), I actually think that the writers in LW are better than their scores represent. Significantly. If stories written with similar skill were posted in other categories, they would likely have a bump in scores of .2 or .3.

2) If I was sniping, and I don't think I was, it was at the posters and voters. I think I mentioned that. Not the general readership. I think that my point was legitimate.

Lastly, I'll mention that I actually admire the writers Oshaw mentioned. I also admire Oshaw. If you check my 'Following' list, you'll see that I'm following him and I've read and 5 starred everything he's written here.

 

[Hypoxia]

My single well-received LW story has the cheaters swept away in a mudslide, I conclude that BtB works as long as it's divine punishment.

 

[holliday1960]

I don't think your points are necessary, Bebop. If one wants to run with a 'conspiracy theory', they will, regardless of what is right in front of them. Carry on and don't let it fluster or frustrate you or your endeavors to write. Most people who read this thread will see it for what it is.

 

[lovecraft68]

I can understand Oshaw being defensive, the category is denigrated, but rightfully so. It doesn't mean there aren't talented authors and decent readers over there, but they're just overwhelmed with trash and that's the sites fault for not caring what goes on here.

I understand his feelings because although it doesn't get trashed nearly as much as LW writing in I/T does bring that as well. We're all sick, twisted, disgusting and of course its the easiest category to write with the dumbest fan base

So I don't fault the guy for saying his piece.

 

[holliday1960]

I can understand Oshaw being defensive, the category is denigrated, but rightfully so.

So I don't fault the guy for saying his piece.

I think you'll find anyone who posts on lit is denigrated in some way by someone. That doesn't support an across the board blanket statement about people on the AH. And any individual or event that encourages the denigration of another, morally should not be supported.

I read, vote and comment in every category and I never, not once, have deliberately and maliciously tried to discourage anyone from doing and being the best they can be. I don't downvote either. I won't say I've never given less than a 5, but that was before I understood how a 4 can lower the standings. If I can't find anything nice to say, then I say nothing. *silence....*

 

[lovecraft68]

I think you'll find anyone who posts on lit is denigrated in some way by someone. That doesn't support an across the board blanket statement about people on the AH. And any individual or event that encourages the denigration of another, morally should not be supported.

I read, vote and comment in every category and I never, not once, have deliberately and maliciously tried to discourage anyone from doing and being the best they can be. I don't downvote either. I won't say I've never given less than a 5, but that was before I understood how a 4 can lower the standings. If I can't find anything nice to say, then I say nothing. *silence....*

But you're not a troll.

The difference with LW vs every other category, even squick categories like Non con and Incest, is that trolls exist, but are the vast minority, in LW the trolls rule and when someone does leave a supportive remark they are then in turn attacked and therefore discouraged from leaving more public comments which then give the trolls more of a stranglehold.

If anon comments were eliminated by the site, just in that one category, it would be a vastly different group being vocal there, and it would be the decent faction.

I'll never back off my opinion that LW's issues are 100% on the site and their apathetic, we don't care what happens here, attitude.

I know the answer is well don't be thin skinned and use the delete on the comments, don't let the trolls get to you....

But there comes a point where people say; you know, I really don't have to take this shit. At that point they don't just leave LW, they leave the site.

but again back to apathy, don't like it, leave. People are leaving. I can see it in the numbers in the hubs. Traffic may be as good as before, but its board, chat traffic, not story traffic.

Between the abuse and hate speech allowed to run rampant, the games with the scores, top lists, contests, and the endless glitches and broken features and most of all the total disdain ownership has for complaints and suggestions added to the countless times they have outright lied about things they said they were going to do and now remove any comment reminding them of some of those promises, it all adds up.

There's more options out there than ever and people don't have to settle for a bad environment and non existent 'customer service'

I stick around here, just on the boards now, because I've maxed out here for what I want out of it. I'm not looking for feedback, scores, comments, challenges etc...so for me its a time killing (and stalling) hangout for anyone that wants more? This place doesn't deliver anywhere near what it used to.

 

[Harddaysknight]

This is a very good thread. I just have to jump in. I apologize if I am repeating things others have already stated. Oshaw did not say that any Bebop3 denigrated anyone, just as Bebop3 points out that he did not. I have the opinion that Oshaw was responding to the negative comments in general about the "cesspool" that is LW.


We LW writers discuss this very thing at length. There are many terrible stories posted there. That is a given. There are many angry readers and commenters there. That is true. LW is a diverse category that touches readers in their everyday lives. To many, it is not fantasy. It is real. Their wife took off with her boss. The husband is banging his secretary. This happens to people and when they read about it happening to others, even fictional others, they react. They still hurt.


If you go to Romance, you expect, and rightly so, a romantic story. In anal, you know what to expect. In most categories, you will get what the title implies, or infers, or whatever. In LW, it's a crap shoot. A large numbers of readers love to read about the fantasy parts, like happily sharing the wife with her boss, or the wife bringing her friend over for some fun. A large number of readers want to see the cheater (Most often the wife) suffer in some horrible way. A surprising number (to me) want to read about a husband being humiliated and dominated by the wife and her well hung lover. This wide range of hopes and expectations does not exist in other categories. If I read incest, I'm not going to get upset when Mommy seduces Jr. If I read IR, I expect the lovers to be of varying ethnicity. In LW, I have no idea what to expect, unless of course the writer's name is Cuckboy, or Killthebitch, or something like that.

The common thread of LW is that the cream will rise to the top, but the stories have to be well written. Oshaw, DTIverson, Todd173, Rehnquist, qhml1, and Laptopwriter own the top spots in LW. I mean most of the top 200 spots are theirs. Why is that? Because they write some damn good stories with plots and character development. There are some very well written wife sharing stories with high scores. Check out "3 Days of Watching My Wife Fuck" with almost 4 million views and a 4.57 score, which is quite respectable in in that category. The key is the writing.

In many genres, the top 20 stories are pretty good, but the quality drops, I think, sooner and faster than the top stories in LW. It is a very demanding category and the commenters are not there to coddle anyone. They are brutally frank, and often very rude, but they are passionate. They are emotional and they keep coming back to read more stories.

It takes think skin to post there and the comments can be discouraging, but the major thing is to consider why the readers didn't like it. Did they complain about punctuation, sentence structure, plot and things that really should concern any writer, or do they want a "better ending" or to see the lover lose his balls? Listen to constructive criticism and ignore the personal attacks. Easy to say and hard for some to do. For debate, comments, passion, views, and entertainment LW rules Literotica. For many, it's the major leagues, while the other genres are the minors. You can be safe posting in Romance or some other category because weak stories are ignored and not lambasted. When you step into the batter's box in LW, be prepared for anything, including being hit by the pitcher!

 

[SimonDoom]

Usually I ignore all the posts slamming the Loving Wives readership but since you asked why I write in Loving Wives, I'll go ahead and comment. It is because the LW readers are the most demanding and critical of all the readers in Literotica. When I write a story that the readers acclaim, I feel I've accomplished something. During the Korean War there was a popular saying, "If you can't handle MIG's, don't fly in MIG alley." I like to think I am up to the challenge. And, I feel I have a small measure of success with the limited number of stories I've posted.


Take for example, my story, "Equation, favored by 567 with 271 comments; or, "Grief" favored by 354 with 372 comments. I think those are outstanding numbers. Perhaps your stories numbers are similar, but frankly, I have little interest in the categories where most of the Author Hangout's frequent. But, what I don't do is denigrate other authors or why they post in a particular category.


Simply put, I'd prefer reading LW stories from the likes of qhml1, dtiverson, Todd 172, some of the vast list of great writers that have no inherent bias against LW. That all of the Author Hangout's commenters continue to goosestep against LW is certainly your right.

So please continue to snipe away and I'll go back to ignoring these posts.

I don't know where you get the idea that people are biased against the category. They're not. What people object to in LW is that its readership includes a disproportionate number of trolls who post vile comments, and a large number of readers vote down stories, not because they're not good, but because they involve plotlines -- typically, the wife who has extramarital sex and gets away with it -- that those readers can't stand. It's the intolerance of the readership that people object to, not the category itself, and not the people, like you, who post to it.

It's not true in LW that if you just write a really good story it's going to get a high score. If you write a really good story that follows a plot line that the BTB crowd doesn't like, there's an excellent chance they'll vote it down regardless how good it is.

 

[SimonDoom]

The common thread of LW is that the cream will rise to the top, but the stories have to be well written. Oshaw, DTIverson, Todd173, Rehnquist, qhml1, and Laptopwriter own the top spots in LW. I mean most of the top 200 spots are theirs. Why is that? Because they write some damn good stories with plots and character development. There are some very well written wife sharing stories with high scores. Check out "3 Days of Watching My Wife Fuck" with almost 4 million views and a 4.57 score, which is quite respectable in in that category. The key is the writing.

3 Days was published 9 years ago. I think it's pretty hard to find a wife sharing story published recently that gets a good score. There are a few that crack the 4.5 line, but not many.

The average score in LW is much lower than in other categories.

In response to Bebop's original post, asking why anyone would want to publish a story in LW, I would say it's a great place to post a story as long as your story ISN'T about wife sharing. It has a large audience and stories can do very well if they don't push the wrong buttons.

 

[Valint]

If you go to Romance, you expect, and rightly so, a romantic story. In anal, you know what to expect. In most categories, you will get what the title implies, or infers, or whatever. In LW, it's a crap shoot.

It is very bizarre. It's as if there was a category called "Living Families", which was composed 50% of the kind of story in which a brother fucks all of his sisters in increasingly implausible ways in a world which operates according to porn logic, and the other 50% were stories in which the brother sleeps with his sister in the first chapter, and the next five chapters deal in a realistic manner with the discovery of their transgression, how this affected the relationships of everyone in the family, and the therapy sessions as people tried to deal with the aftermath.

Imagine a category in which chapter one of a story in which a father has sex with his step-daughter might be followed up by a chapter two in which they have a threesome with the step-daughter's best friend... or chapter two might be lovingly-detailed descriptions about the retribution on the father for crossing the line with his step-daughter, and how his life is destroyed, ending with him being ass-raped in prison. You'd have no idea at the start what kind of story you're getting.

I mean, all of those are valid stories, but it's unlikely that the same readers are looking for all of them, and someone who really wants the one is likely to react pretty negatively to the other.