Epic Oil Spill...FUCK!

[DeeZire]

This is opinion, not science, but if it's true, we are, indeed, fucked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/nobody-knows-the-trouble_b_561796.html

Excerpt:

A well blowout in 1979 offers a bit of context; except the Deepwater Horizon horror show is already about to transcend what happened in the Bay of Campeche off the coast of Mexico. The Ixtoc 1 rig blew and began to spew crude that flowed uninterrupted for nine months. Before the well was capped, 3,000,000 barrels of crude had drifted north to Texas and the northern coast of Mexico. The endangered Kemps-Ridley turtle, which nests along the border beaches, had to be airlifted to safety and has only begun in recent years to recover in population.

The Ixtoc disaster, however, is spit in the ocean compared to the British Petroleum apocalypse. Estimates are the current blowout is putting 200,000 gallons or 5000 barrels of crude per day into the waters of the Gulf. Ixtoc's blowout was not capped until two relief wells were drilled and completed at the end of those nine months, and regardless of optimistic scenarios from the federal government or BP, relieving the pressure on the current flow is probably the only way to stop the polluting release of oil. The only way to relieve that pressure is with additional wells. No one is going to honestly say how much time is needed to drill such wells but consider the scope of environmental damage we are confronting if it requires at least as long as Ixtoc. Nine months of 5000 barrels of crude per day ought to turn the Gulf of Mexico into a lifeless spill pond and set toxins on currents that will carry them to deadly business around the globe.

 

[JackLuis]

Oh it's not that bad.

See a Congress man said so.

 

[TxRad]

You're right, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do know the design of the BOP they're using failed. That's my point. There is speculation that the rams couldn't pinch off the pipe because part of the drill string is stuck inside. I was wondering what the BOP engineers had planned for exactly this scenario. Apparently, they had nothing planned.

My thought was if there was a T-fitting (sideways) then it could act like a relief valve, routing the uncontrolled oil flow into a new riser so the old riser that's leaking could be severed and plugged.

I was talking to an associate who sells well-drilling equipment, and he said the word in the industry is that BP's BOP was not state of the art, it was 8 or ten years old, and that there are better BOP's available but BP didn't want to spring for a new one. That sounds about right to me. It's the Free Market way.

First of all, BP did not buy the BOPs, they were supplied by the drilling company as part of the rig. The reason the packer was placed in the casing and sea water was used to replace the drill fluid was so they could remove the BOPs and nipple up the production head.

By the way, the pipe stuck in the rams (If that is the case)and the drill string are the same thing. The failure was more a fault of the well exploding and killing the people who would have normally operated the rams and shears on the BOPs. Now they are having to do it manually from the sea floor.

The BOP stack is made up of several (Up to four) BOP heads stacked one on top of the other. This is a redundant, redundant, redundant system as a fail safe. Each BOP has a high pressure bladder to clamp around the pipe, a set of Rams to close off the well, and a set of shears to cut the pipe.

Your tee idea won't float even if you place it sideways. You still have the drill sting in the way and 3 to 6000 psi to work against and nothing to work with.

There is a choke manifold connected to most BOP stacks that can release pressure but the question is, where do you release it to. 5000 feet of water and how far from land? Lets get real people. If this blowout was on land you'd only have fire to deal with. How long have wells burned before they were finally capped. The same applies to this well.

 

[trysail]

It's a free country. That, of course, means that people who haven't the foggiest idea in hell what they're talking about are permitted to broadcast their opinions as if they did.

It also means that an economic system that successfully created a broadly-based standard of living for the vast majority of its citizens that's the envy of the world will be attacked by those who, obviously and unfortunately, know nothing about economics.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a free country. That, of course, means that people who haven't the foggiest idea in hell what they're talking about are permitted to broadcast their opinions as if they did.

It also means that an economic system that successfully created a broadly-based standard of living for the vast majority of its citizens that's the envy of the world will be attacked by those who, obviously and unfortunately, know nothing about economics.

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Or maybe who are seeing that said standard of living is unsustainable, and achieved at a huge cost elsewhere.

Your precious economic system is costing us the Gulf of Mexico-- merely one of many damaged ecosystems.

 

[trysail]

Or maybe who are seeing that said standard of living is unsustainable, and achieved at a huge cost elsewhere.

Your precious economic system is costing us the Gulf of Mexico-- merely one of many damaged ecosystems.

Stella-
Someday, somebody is going to wake up and ask the question: "Why aren't there any jobs?"


By then— when we've become the cleanest third world country on earth— the answer will be obvious. I hope I'm already long gone and mouldering in my grave.


Do you really believe the road to economic health can be found through delivering pizzas to each other, paper shuffling and suing each other? What else does the U.S. do?


Life is full of tradeoffs and compromise. Prosperity cannot be legislated or decreed. In order for trade, commerce and manufacturing to occur, somebody has to make something that other people actually want to buy. That cannot be done in a pristine hermetic bubble. It cannot be done by three people supervised by a committee of four hundred inspectors, tort lawyers, regulators, consultants, stock traders and diversity trainers.

http://www.sacbee.com/2009/03/19/1698037/unemployment-in-california.html

 

[Stella_Omega]

Someone is going to wake up and ask the question; "Why are the fish dying in the atlantic ocean?"

Maybe they can get a job explaining that one.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Stella-
Someday, somebody is going to wake up and ask the question: "Why aren't there any jobs?"


By then— when we've become the cleanest third world country on earth— the answer will be obvious. I hope I'm already long gone and moldering in my grave.


Do you really believe the road to economic health can be found through delivering pizzas to each other, paper shuffling and suing each other? What else does the U.S. do?


Life is full of tradeoffs and compromise. Prosperity cannot be legislated or decreed. In order for trade, commerce and manufacturing to occur, somebody has to make something that other people actually want to buy. That cannot be done in a pristine hermetic bubble. It cannot be done by three people supervised by a committee of four hundred inspectors, tort lawyers, regulators, consultants, stock traders and diversity trainers.

http://www.sacbee.com/2009/03/19/1698037/unemployment-in-california.html

Someday, someone is going to wake up and ask "Why are we all dead?"

What is the quality of life when there is no clean water, no clean air, and aquatic resources are destroyed? The simplistic, "economic growth at all costs" approach is the quickest path to ruin.

 

[bronzeage]

Stella-
Someday, somebody is going to wake up and ask the question: "Why aren't there any jobs?"


]

What does a lumberjack do after he chops down the last tree? Should he go deliver pizzas or shuffle papers? Why should we suffer for his short sighted economic planning?

There is an old story about a goose that laid golden eggs. The Gulf of Mexico is an integral part of the US economy. This oil spill means a finite and dwindling resource now threatens a renewable one.

Life is full of trade-offs and compromises, but some trade-offs are stupid. The idea that we should exploit a finite resource to sustain a high standard of living is like spending your entire lottery winnings on beer, in one day.

Whether we like it or not, humans are part of the ecosystem. To dismiss ecological damage as irrelevant to our problems is short sighted economic planning. It's no different than mortgaging the future to pay for today's excesses.

There is a quatrain from the Rubaiyat,

"And much as Wine has play'd the Infidel,
And robb'd me of my Robe of Honour-well,
I often wonder what the Vintners buy
One half so precious as the Goods they sell."

Substitute "oil" for "wine" and ask yourself, when the oil is gone, what will we have to show for it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Where are all the jobs? I started asking that question twenty years ago.

And I know the answers. Here are just a few;

1) no manufacturing

2) a huge reliance on luxury items as basic commodities.

3) no environmental foresight

4) corporate greed (see #'s 1,2,&3)

You know, every once in a while, Chicago has what's called a. "owl summer." The vole population hits a high peak, and the owls lay three eggs instead of two because they are so well fed. Lots of owls eat lots of voles. The vole population crashes, and then we have an "owl winter" where people find them, malnourished and dying.

As a worst-case scenario, we are a few decades away from Third World status. As a best case scenario, we are about to change our definition of what the First World lifestyle should be.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I disagree.

What will happen is what always happens.

The elites and special interests will gain monopolies over all the current industries, and new blood will cut their throats with innovation. A young Rockefeller will replace whale oil with kerosene; an Edison will replace gas lights with electric; a Henry Ford and Curtis Wright will come along. And the cycle will keep spinning.

These people will offer you stock for 10 cents, you'll hoist your nose, buy more hula-hoop, and remain poor.

 

[DeeZire]

First of all, BP did not buy the BOPs, they were supplied by the drilling company as part of the rig.

In other words, hiring a drilling contractor with less than state-of-the-art gear is cost effective, so damn the risk and go with the low bidder, right?

There is a choke manifold connected to most BOP stacks that can release pressure but the question is, where do you release it to. 5000 feet of water and how far from land? Lets get real people. If this blowout was on land you'd only have fire to deal with. How long have wells burned before they were finally capped. The same applies to this well.

Now we're getting somewhere. Perhaps the next generation of BOP's will include a fitting so they could drop a new riser down to the manifold, hook it up, and then release the oil into the new riser. That's what I'm getting at - this blowout scenario is not a one-in-a-million occurrence, it's a predictable event. The fact that BP thinks they can drill 5,000 feet below the surface because the odds are "pretty good" that there won't be a blowout is so utterly irresponsible, it's sickening.

 

[trysail]

Hooo-kay. I see we've entered la-la land, otherwise known as the land of magical thinking, perpetual motion machines, the Tooth Fairy and free lunches.



"See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these."

 

[TxRad]

In other words, hiring a drilling contractor with less than state-of-the-art gear is cost effective, so damn the risk and go with the low bidder, right?



Now we're getting somewhere. Perhaps the next generation of BOP's will include a fitting so they could drop a new riser down to the manifold, hook it up, and then release the oil into the new riser. That's what I'm getting at - this blowout scenario is not a one-in-a-million occurrence, it's a predictable event. The fact that BP thinks they can drill 5,000 feet below the surface because the odds are "pretty good" that there won't be a blowout is so utterly irresponsible, it's sickening.

You're an Idiot. They already have that. What they don't have is a floating rig to operate it. The fucking thing burnt and sank. What don't you understand about that.

Take the rest of your political crap and shove it up your ass. 11 men died so you can drive your fucking SUV. Get a grip on reality, why don't you.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Hooo-kay. I see we've entered la-la land, otherwise known as the land of magical thinking, perpetual motion machines, the Tooth Fairy and free lunches.

La la land is the place where people believe that finite resources can be consumed indefinitely, and that the residue of their consumption, some of which will be poisonous or radioactive for hundreds of thousands of years, will not cause permanent damage to this planet or otherwise make vast areas uninhabitable.

These issues require solutions, not sappy slogans.

"Drill, baby, drill." The mantra of the deluded.

 

[trysail]

La la land is the place where people believe that finite resources can be consumed indefinitely, and that the residue of their consumption, some of which will be poisonous or radioactive for hundreds of thousands of years, will not cause permanent damage to this planet or otherwise make vast areas uninhabitable.

These issues require solutions, not sappy slogans.

"Drill, baby, drill." The mantra of the deluded.

The next time you get all emotional and teary-eyed, do us the favor of demonstrating a grasp of mathematics and quantify your religion instead of inflicting it on the rest of humanity.

It is a fine line we tred between being widely understood and technically correct.

When one talks about phase changes and the heat released or absorbed when they occur, most people's eyes glaze over and they tune out. If one says that it takes less heat to boil alcohol than water, they seem to get it.

I don't really know how to deal with the fact that even most "educated" people don't have a solid grounding in math, chemistry and physics. A person can get a Ph.D. today and never even be exposed to the term "heat of vaporization," much less understand the implication of it in practical terms.

Hell, most people don't even have a feel for orders of magnitude - they bandy around millions, billions and trillions like they are about the same. They are just generic "big numbers" in most minds.

The sad result of this lack of well-rounded education among so-called educated people is they (and the people who follow them) are vulnerable to superstition based on emotion.

I'm amazed about how little the average person knows about the "size" of things....I've asked smart people to guess the approximate size of the container that could hold all of the humans in the world, in cubic miles. The guess is always hundreds or thousands of cubic miles....The answer is a little more than a tenth of a cubic mile.

The volume of petroleum produced each year is a little more than a cubic mile.

81,820,000.................Barrels/Day
365..............................Days/Year
29,864,300,000...........Barrels/Year
1,254,300,600,000.......Gallons...............@42 Gallons/Barrel
289,743,438,600,000....Cubic Inches.......@1 Gallon=231 Cubic Inches
6,210,207,446...............Cubic Yards.........@1 Cubic Yard=46,656 Cubic Inches
1.14..............................Cubic Miles.........@1 Cubic Mile=5,451,776,000 Cubic Yards

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Please do not respond with a non sequitur. Your statement is meaningless drivel unless you connect the volume of humanity and the volume of oil removed from the ground annually.

The next time you get all emotional and teary-eyed, do us the favor of demonstrating a grasp of mathematics and quantify your religion instead of inflicting it on the rest of humanity.



The volume of petroleum produced each year is a little more than a cubic mile.

81,820,000.................Barrels/Day
365..............................Days/Year
29,864,300,000...........Barrels/Year
1,254,300,600,000.......Gallons...............@42 Gallons/Barrel
289,743,438,600,000....Cubic Inches.......@1 Gallon=231 Cubic Inches
6,210,207,446...............Cubic Yards.........@1 Cubic Yard=46,656 Cubic Inches
1.14..............................Cubic Miles.........@1 Cubic Mile=5,451,776,000 Cubic Yards

 

[trysail]

...non sequitur...

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. May you ( alone ) suffer the consequences of the choice you seek to impose on the rest, including— but not limited to— dramatically higher prices and limited availability of virtually every item you can think of ( from food to clothes to heat to light to housing to transportation ).

The one hundred human-equivalents now performing daily tasks and labor for you will be eliminated— as you requested.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hooo-kay. I see we've entered la-la land, otherwise known as the land of magical thinking, perpetual motion machines, the Tooth Fairy and free lunches.

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That's the land we are about to be evicted from.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. May you ( alone ) suffer the consequences of the choice you seek to impose on the rest, including— but not limited to— dramatically higher prices and limited availability of virtually every item you can think of ( from food to clothes to heat to light to housing to transportation ).

Have you noticed the way gasoline, food, power and housing costs have risen since the sixties? What's that about, aboundance? I'll give you clothing, which is definitely about abundance. All sorts of luxuries are abundant. it's the necessities that get more and more expensive.

The one hundred human-equivalents now performing daily tasks and labor for you will be eliminated— as you requested.

Can you elaborate on this? it's intriguing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STELLA

Youre right.

If the price of a house or car fell like the price of computers since 1950, a car would cost you 50 cents today; a house $2.

 

[3113]

So this 100-ton contraption is headed for the leak site...

 

[TxRad]

So this 100-ton contraption is headed for the leak site...

From what I could see it looks like this box will sit down over the BOP stack and a new pipe or riser will be attached at the top. The cutouts are for being able to get to controls and such on the BOPs and for the fallen riser, which may or may not be cut loose at a later date.

Some idiot on youtube wanted to know why it hadn't been moved out and put in place earlier. Fourchon is a construction yard. It's probably just been built. Failures of BOPs are few and far between, especially on wells of this magnitude.

Another idiot wanted to know why they just didn't bolt something to the ocean floor to cap it. Yeah, like there are place to bolt things on an ocean bottom that made up of light silts.

 

[Stella_Omega]

From what I could see it looks like this box will sit down over the BOP stack and a new pipe or riser will be attached at the top. The cutouts are for being able to get to controls and such on the BOPs and for the fallen riser, which may or may not be cut loose at a later date.

Some idiot on youtube wanted to know why it hadn't been moved out and put in place earlier. Fourchon is a construction yard. It's probably just been built. Failures of BOPs are few and far between, especially on wells of this magnitude.

Another idiot wanted to know why they just didn't bolt something to the ocean floor to cap it. Yeah, like there are place to bolt things on an ocean bottom that made up of light silts.

I saw that question too. I wish there were simple soundbite answers for stupid questions like that one...

 

[Handley_Page]

So this 100-ton contraption is headed for the leak site...

interesting film.
What's a 'contraption' and how are they going to fix it in place ???

 

[oggbashan]

interesting film.
What's a 'contraption' and how are they going to fix it in place ???

Whatever you want it to be.

A quickly engineered device to solve a urgent problem. A contraption is cobbled together in a hurry to get you out of a fix. It is crude, hopefully effective but not pretty.

E.G. Dumping cement on the Chernobyl reactor. Using Duct Tape on anything.

Og